Discussion:
Britain Has Gone Nine Days Without Wind Power (gas and nuclear to the rescue)
(too old to reply)
Chom Noamsky
2018-06-08 15:31:16 UTC
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Raw Message
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.

***

“This shows that relying on wind, solar and batteries to supply the
majority of our power is reckless for energy security.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/u-k-wind-drought-heads-into-9th-day-with-no-relief-for-weeks
JTEM is right
2018-06-08 17:47:55 UTC
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Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98%
of the U.K. for 216 hours. What's that? Two? Maybe
three? And they last FOREVER, just like your cell
phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.

Right?




-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/174697149228
Chom Noamsky
2018-06-08 22:04:49 UTC
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Post by JTEM is right
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98%
of the U.K. for 216 hours. What's that? Two? Maybe
three? And they last FOREVER, just like your cell
phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Right?
Jolly Old burns about a TWh per day, so it would take 9 TWh of battery
storage to power the UK for 9 days.

The South Australian Tesla battery is apparently good for 129 MWh, so it
would require almost 70,000 of the Tesla battery systems to run the
country for that many days.

At $200 million a pop, just a mere $14 trillion.

Chump change, eh?
JTEM is right
2018-06-08 23:30:24 UTC
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Post by Chom Noamsky
The South Australian Tesla battery is apparently good for 129 MWh, so it
would require almost 70,000 of the Tesla battery systems to run the
country for that many days.
At $200 million a pop, just a mere $14 trillion.
Chump change, eh?
So you admit that it's a realistic workable solution!
Just spend approximately 5 times the GDP of the U.K.
and they TOTALLY prove you wrong about wind power!

...for one country.





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http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/174670657038
Chom Noamsky
2018-06-08 23:46:58 UTC
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Post by JTEM is right
Post by Chom Noamsky
The South Australian Tesla battery is apparently good for 129 MWh, so it
would require almost 70,000 of the Tesla battery systems to run the
country for that many days.
At $200 million a pop, just a mere $14 trillion.
Chump change, eh?
So you admit that it's a realistic workable solution!
Just spend approximately 5 times the GDP of the U.K.
and they TOTALLY prove you wrong about wind power!
...for one country.
But it gets worse.

Jolly Old would require generation capacity that can meet ongoing
demand, plus a surplus to store when the breeze ain't blowy.

There was a study done for Germany a few years back, the conclusion was
that it would require a total wind and solar capacity of 4x peak demand,
plus enough backup (battery, conventional generation, etc) to supply .89
of peak demand.

Even a totally ridiculous amount of overcapacity still won't guarantee
the lights stay on.
Paul Aubrin
2018-06-09 13:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Right?
Jolly Old burns about a TWh per day, so it would take 9 TWh of battery
storage to power the UK for 9 days.
The South Australian Tesla battery is apparently good for 129 MWh, so it
would require almost 70,000 of the Tesla battery systems to run the
country for that many days.
At $200 million a pop, just a mere $14 trillion.
14 trillions would be enough cash to defer Tesla bankruptcy for a few
months.
columbiaaccidentinvestigation
2018-06-09 13:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Right?
Jolly Old burns about a TWh per day, so it would take 9 TWh of battery
storage to power the UK for 9 days.
The South Australian Tesla battery is apparently good for 129 MWh, so it
would require almost 70,000 of the Tesla battery systems to run the
country for that many days.
At $200 million a pop, just a mere $14 trillion.
14 trillions would be enough cash to defer Tesla bankruptcy for a few
months.
so how much to clean up fukushima, and remember thats after the power is no longer be generated, just ask SDG&E customers who are paying for san onofre after but no watts are coming from the power plant?
Byker
2018-06-08 23:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would have
been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
I'm reminded of a certain shockumentary:

Pt. 1:


Pt. 2:


Dated now, but still watchable...
Siri Cruise
2018-06-09 00:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would have
been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Nobody expects to be just wind or solar or hydroelectric. What's wanted is
efficient way to store energy and fossil fuel generators that can be accelerated
and decelerated from full power cheaply.

Some hydroelectric generators are at the bottom of reservoir and the top of a
forebay. When electricity is needed they generate from water dropping reservoir
to forebay. When extra electricity is available (wind generators can still run
at night when people are asleep), the generators pump water from the forebay up
to the reservoir.
--
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'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Chom Noamsky
2018-06-09 00:34:26 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Siri Cruise
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would have
been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Nobody expects to be just wind or solar or hydroelectric. What's wanted is
efficient way to store energy and fossil fuel generators that can be accelerated
and decelerated from full power cheaply.
Some hydroelectric generators are at the bottom of reservoir and the top of a
forebay. When electricity is needed they generate from water dropping reservoir
to forebay. When extra electricity is available (wind generators can still run
at night when people are asleep), the generators pump water from the forebay up
to the reservoir.
It's called pumped hydro, and greenies generally oppose the development
of hydro reservoirs.
Joe Clanton
2018-06-09 08:19:37 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Siri Cruise
Nobody expects to be just wind or solar or hydroelectric. What's wanted is
efficient way to store energy and fossil fuel generators that can be accelerated
and decelerated from full power cheaply.
AIUI scalable storage solutions aren't economically viable at present.
However there are still great CO2 savings to be made if gas is only used
as a backup supply to variable supplies such as wind, solar, etc. Long
distance distribution may also be used to reduce the need for gas backup.

However for a real zero CO2 solution Nuclear still appears to be the
only viable economic solution. I don't really understand why Nuclear
isn't being pushed more. My guess is that companies are worried at the
long term investment required. When you are looking at a 50 year return
on investment there is clearly a high risk that future cheaper
technological advances may reduce future income.

So the holy grail promise of improved storage may actually be preventing
a practical solution being implemented now.
johnny-knowall
2018-06-09 09:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Siri Cruise
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would have
been without power for the last week or so.
All you need is enough "Big Batteries" to power 98% of the U.K. for 216
hours. What's that? Two? Maybe three? And they last FOREVER, just like
your cell phone battery, so the cost is spread over centuries.
Nobody expects to be just wind or solar or hydroelectric.
No, but the rabid right wingers will jump at any chance to put down wind and
solar.

They have mush for brains and can only follow a script.

It is not as if demand is high at this time of year. Occasionally it drops
below 20GW overnight.

However, the right have (wrongly as usual) been predicting power cuts due to
insufficient supply for about a decade now - and their model of political
brainwashing relies on keeping their mushy brained friends in a state or
perpetual fear of electrical Armageddon.

They are getting desperate, and forget that when wind generation falls near
to zero, solar is usually supplying 15-25% of demand during the long hours of
daylight.
columbiaaccidentinvestigation
2018-06-09 13:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
***
“This shows that relying on wind, solar and batteries to supply the
majority of our power is reckless for energy security.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/u-k-wind-drought-heads-into-9th-day-with-no-relief-for-weeks
Oh my, guess we should give you a good ole green glowing cookie as an award. Better subsidize another nuke plant in the U.K., and scrap all the engineering safety standards like you all did with the last one
Kibbu Ubik
2018-06-09 17:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
***
“This shows that relying on wind, solar and batteries to supply the
majority of our power is reckless for energy security.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/u-k-wind-drought-heads-into-9th-day-with-no-relief-for-weeks
We don't intend to rely on wind and solar, its just part of the mix. We
are to trying to stop all coal usage but that's proving difficult to
achieve :(

<https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-direction-for-uk-energy-policy>

--
Kibbu Ubik
2018-06-09 17:24:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
We don't intend to :-
“On current plans we expect to see 10GW of offshore wind installed by
2020” - UK energy secretary.
IIRC that's only about 3% of annual usage.


--
Wally W.
2018-06-09 19:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
If Jolly Old relied only on wind and solar, 98% of the country would
have been without power for the last week or so.
***
“This shows that relying on wind, solar and batteries to supply the
majority of our power is reckless for energy security.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-07/u-k-wind-drought-heads-into-9th-day-with-no-relief-for-weeks
Unum, who has often followed you around like a lost puppy dog, is
conspicuously absent from this thread.

Kymmie and his bot are also mum.

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