Cheap wind power

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's the
reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the wind
industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached A$14,000/MWh
between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh averaged on the whole
day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national basis as
consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern coal-fired plants retiring
and the lack of replacement investment, combined with high gas prices," Mr
Pierce said.

"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two years as
wind and solar generation enters the system."

R Kym Horsell

2018-01-19 17:52:32 UTC

The Aus national energy market has a cutoff price so that robot traders
wont screw up the market with some "panic attack" bids that might all
take place within seconds from a large number of robots all in lock step.

So under the energy rules the AEMO prepares a set of prices that apply
when the market is suspended during such "panic attacks". Those
emergency prices are by law the average of the preceding month for that
particular state. These "suspension prices" are published separately.

So when the "price" market droids are watching goes to some impossibly high
value just remember -- they are not prices that are actually charged to anyone
anytime. The "market cutoff price" is not a real price.

In any case the prices actually charged to customers are usually heavily
discounted from the market price.

So what the "average recommended price" is including these dummy "trading
is actually suspended, fool" prices is irrelevant and maybe indicates
someone somewhere doesn't quite understand what automated trading and
markets are all about post computers.

Sorry if this upsets any fakesperts.

Post by Unum
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national basis as
consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern coal-fired plants retiring
and the lack of replacement investment, combined with high gas prices," Mr
Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two years as
wind and solar generation enters the system."

--
In a study recently published in Environmental Research Letters, we explored
the changing characteristics of the global food system. Using annual staple
food production and trade data from 1992 to 2009, we showed that the global
system has increased in complexity over time. In particular, the number of
wheat and rice trade connections has doubled, and trade of wheat and rice
has increased by 42% and 90%, respectively. We also found that the global
food system is relatively homogeneous; 85% of countries have low or marginal
food self-sufficiency. These findings are quite important, as highly
interconnected and homogenous systems (like the Internet and global
financial systems) are thought to have increased susceptibility to
system-wide, cascade-like disruptions.
-- Michael Puma, Mar 2015
<http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/puma_03/>

Food security is defined by the Food and Agriculture Organization as: when
all people, at all times, have physical, social and economic access to
sufficient, safe and nutritious food that meets their dietary needs and food
preferences for an active and healthy life.

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-20 06:59:20 UTC

"Energy Markets" are stupid.

A set rate is necessary. If you can't provide
energy at a decent rate, stop pretending we
should take you seriously.

Build some new coal plants. Nobody likes coal,
but it works.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/169833287348

Wally W.

2018-01-19 20:26:36 UTC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national basis as
consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern coal-fired plants retiring
and the lack of replacement investment, combined with high gas prices," Mr
Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two years as
wind and solar generation enters the system."

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results." - Albert Einstein

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-20 06:57:11 UTC

Post by Unum
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two years as
wind and solar generation enters the system."

So, sure, they're ass raping people without mercy right
now, but in the future everyone is going to get their
very own private kingdom, complete with robot slaves they
can order around, so it's all good!

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/169833287348

Paul Aubrin

2018-01-24 16:53:52 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's
the reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the wind
industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached
A$14,000/MWh between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh
averaged on the whole day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-

to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

Post by Unum
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national basis
as consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern coal-fired plants
retiring and the lack of replacement investment, combined with high gas
prices," Mr Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two
years as wind and solar generation enters the system."

If the predictions of Mr. Pierce are as successful as those of 17 years
ago, expect prices to be multiplied by 10 or more.

Unum

2018-01-25 17:19:36 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's
the reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the wind
industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached
A$14,000/MWh between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh
averaged on the whole day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-

to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

If the predictions of Mr. Pierce are as successful as those of 17 years
ago, expect prices to be multiplied by 10 or more.

Why, are gas prices going to rise 10x?

Paul Aubrin

2018-01-28 20:59:22 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's
the reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the
wind industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached
A$14,000/MWh between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh
averaged on the whole day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-

to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

Post by Unum
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national
basis as consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern
coal-fired plants retiring and the lack of replacement investment,
combined with high gas prices," Mr Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two
years as wind and solar generation enters the system."

If the predictions of Mr. Pierce are as successful as those of 17 years
ago, expect prices to be multiplied by 10 or more.

Why, are gas prices going to rise 10x?

Why wind power is not cheap:
http://euanmearns.com/a-first-look-at-the-king-island-tasmania-renewable-
energy-integration-project/#more-20846

"Project Costs
One thing that high-penetration island renewables systems like King
Island have in common is high cost. Gorona del Viento, for example, cost
€7,000/installed kilowatt (11.5 MW, €83 million capital cost) and King
Island is in the same range ($18.25 million capital cost, 2.55 MW, $7,000/
kilowatt. Note that this may not include the battery, the flywheel, the
resistor and the local “smart grid”.) Yet more money comes from the
Tasmanian Government, which “provides around $7 million per annum in
funding support for the electricity supply.”

Hydro Tasmania has also been marketing King Island’s “advanced control
system” in other parts of Australia and has had three bites. Rottnest
Island is installing one at a cost of $12,000/kW (600 kW of solar, $7.3
million capital cost). Flinders Island has installed 1,100 kW (900kW of
wind and 200kW of solar, plus 300kWh of battery storage, an 850kVA
flywheel and a 1.5 MW dynamic resistor) at a cost of $13.3 million, which
works out to $12,000/kW. Coober Pedy, which with a $39 million price tag
for 1MW of solar, 4MW of wind, 1MW/0.5MWh of battery storage and “a range
of additional proven technologies” comes out close to 8,000/kW. It’s
clear that the *low prices for intermittent wind and solar bid* at recent
capacity auctions *apply only when the local grid assumes all*
*responsibility for balancing and grid stability*. When wind and solar
have to stand on their own feet it’s a different ball game."

Wally W.

2018-01-28 22:36:53 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's
the reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the
wind industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached
A$14,000/MWh between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh
averaged on the whole day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-

to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

Post by Unum
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national
basis as consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern
coal-fired plants retiring and the lack of replacement investment,
combined with high gas prices," Mr Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two
years as wind and solar generation enters the system."

If the predictions of Mr. Pierce are as successful as those of 17 years
ago, expect prices to be multiplied by 10 or more.

Why, are gas prices going to rise 10x?

http://euanmearns.com/a-first-look-at-the-king-island-tasmania-renewable-
energy-integration-project/#more-20846
"Project Costs
One thing that high-penetration island renewables systems like King
Island have in common is high cost. Gorona del Viento, for example, cost
7,000/installed kilowatt (11.5 MW, 83 million capital cost) and King
Island is in the same range ($18.25 million capital cost, 2.55 MW, $7,000/
kilowatt. Note that this may not include the battery, the flywheel, the
resistor and the local smart grid.) Yet more money comes from the
Tasmanian Government, which provides around $7 million per annum in
funding support for the electricity supply.
Hydro Tasmania has also been marketing King Islands advanced control
system in other parts of Australia and has had three bites. Rottnest
Island is installing one at a cost of $12,000/kW (600 kW of solar, $7.3
million capital cost). Flinders Island has installed 1,100 kW (900kW of
wind and 200kW of solar, plus 300kWh of battery storage, an 850kVA
flywheel and a 1.5 MW dynamic resistor) at a cost of $13.3 million, which
works out to $12,000/kW. Coober Pedy, which with a $39 million price tag
for 1MW of solar, 4MW of wind, 1MW/0.5MWh of battery storage and a range
of additional proven technologies comes out close to 8,000/kW. Its
clear that the *low prices for intermittent wind and solar bid* at recent
capacity auctions *apply only when the local grid assumes all*
*responsibility for balancing and grid stability*. When wind and solar
have to stand on their own feet its a different ball game."

Cue Unum to "reply" with an irrelevant one-liner.

See "a few lines up."

:From: Wally W. <***@aim.com>
:Subject: Re: Paper: Climate sensitivity 0.6 C
:Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 07:44:49 -0500
:Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

:Who on the other side of the fence tries to be intelligible and
:actually "has something to say?"

I didn't see anyone from the other side claim their spew is worthing
of being read.

Unum

2018-01-28 22:48:44 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
Wind power is carbon free, and the wind is free (we are told). That's
the reason why Australia two decades ago decided to subsidise the
wind industry. Politicians then promised that, as the wind is free,
electricity, which was then cheap, would be even cheaper.
Yesterday and today too, in South Australia, prices reached
A$14,000/MWh between midday and 6pm (source AEMO), and A$1074MWh
averaged on the whole day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-

to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

Post by Unum
"Prices rose sharply this year by almost 11 per cent on a national
basis as consumers felt the impact of Hazelwood and Northern
coal-fired plants retiring and the lack of replacement investment,
combined with high gas prices," Mr Pierce said.
"But we expect these price rises will be reversed over the next two
years as wind and solar generation enters the system."

If the predictions of Mr. Pierce are as successful as those of 17 years
ago, expect prices to be multiplied by 10 or more.

Why, are gas prices going to rise 10x?

Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/colorado-renewable-energy-future

The median bid for a wind project was $18.10/MWh; the median for wind+storage
was $21, just three dollars higher. The median bid for a solar PV project was
$29.50/MWh; the median bid for solar+storage was $36, just seven dollars
higher. (Keep in mind what median means: Half the projects bid cheaper than
this.)

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-29 04:47:31 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever
built to actual real-world system costs.

Wow. You're an idiot, aren't you? I can tell.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/170237361308

Unum

2018-01-29 05:41:08 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever
built to actual real-world system costs.

"King Island has been developed in stages over the last 20 years."

Post by JTEM is super wealthy!
Wow. You're an idiot, aren't you? I can tell.

All you've ever got is a big fat yap.

"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

Paul Aubrin

2018-01-29 13:25:21 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever built to actual
real-world system costs.

"King Island has been developed in stages over the last 20 years."

Wow. You're an idiot, aren't you? I can tell.

All you've ever got is a big fat yap.

King Island : $7,000/ kilowatt, slightly more than the $36/kWh projects
which never get built.

Post by Unum
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is
routinely purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and
turbines are only getting cheaper, bigger, and better"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

Unum

2018-01-29 15:36:26 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever built to actual
real-world system costs.

"King Island has been developed in stages over the last 20 years."

Wow. You're an idiot, aren't you? I can tell.

All you've ever got is a big fat yap.

King Island : $7,000/ kilowatt, slightly more than the $36/kWh projects
which never get built.

Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-29 13:55:01 UTC

Post by JTEM is super wealthy!
So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever
built to actual real-world system costs.

"King Island has been developed in stages over the last 20 years."

So it's an example of something that exists.

Exactly.

Post by Unum
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

The point was installation cost while you're
running off at the mouth about market prices.

I think one of the points driven home by the
OP is that these systems aren't economical
because of the very high cost of installation.
You're proving him right by demonstrating a
very small return for that investment.

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/170237361308

Unum

2018-01-29 15:59:49 UTC

Post by JTEM is super wealthy!
So you're comparing systems that nobody has ever
built to actual real-world system costs.

"King Island has been developed in stages over the last 20 years."

So it's an example of something that exists.
Exactly.

Is the dimwit now trying to claim there aren't any wind farms? More
than 8GW was installed in the US in 2016.

Post by Unum
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

The point was installation cost while you're
running off at the mouth about market prices.

Obviously the installation cost is covered by the purchase price of
the electricity.

Post by JTEM is super wealthy!
I think one of the points driven home by the
OP is that these systems aren't economical
because of the very high cost of installation.
You're proving him right by demonstrating a
very small return for that investment.

What I've demonstrated is that wind power is widely available for far
less than has been dishonestly portrayed here.

"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-29 20:54:07 UTC

Post by Unum
Is the dimwit now trying to claim there aren't any wind farms? More
than 8GW was installed in the US in 2016.

What answer is capable of altering the facts here?

The OP discussed investment size, what these things
cost, suggesting they aren't economical. You established
that they receive precious little return for that
investment.

Again, what answer would alter these facts?

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/170237361308

Unum

2018-01-29 22:28:54 UTC

Post by Unum
Is the dimwit now trying to claim there aren't any wind farms? More
than 8GW was installed in the US in 2016.

What answer is capable of altering the facts here?
The OP discussed investment size, what these things
cost, suggesting they aren't economical. You established
that they receive precious little return for that
investment.
Again, what answer would alter these facts?

It was in the part of the thread you dishonestly snipped out. Why
is the denialist scum so chickenshit?

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-30 04:11:52 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
It was

So the OP cited some figures showing a very
high cost for constructing wind systems,
while you established that wind system receive
very little return...

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/170287394328

Unum

2018-01-30 04:58:53 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
It was

So the OP cited some figures showing a very
high cost for constructing wind systems,
while you established that wind system receive
very little return...

I established that wind power is cheap to buy. Nothing was said about
return on investment. Why did you lie?

"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

Wally W.

2018-01-30 05:08:14 UTC

Post by Paul Aubrin
It was

So the OP cited some figures showing a very
high cost for constructing wind systems,
while you established that wind system receive
very little return...

I established that wind power is cheap to buy.

*When* is it cheap to buy?

*Why* is it cheap to buy at that time?

What has gone wrong when they have to pay people to use it?

How does paying people to use the product help "investors?"

Post by Unum
Nothing was said about
return on investment. Why did you lie?
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hourand turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

Bret Cahill

2018-01-30 05:42:17 UTC

Post by Wally W.
*When* is it cheap to buy?

You need to ask tRUMP's spiritual advisor. Make sure you send her yer January's income.

Wally W.

2018-01-30 12:39:19 UTC

Post by Bret Cahill

Post by Wally W.
*When* is it cheap to buy?

You need to ask tRUMP's spiritual advisor. Make sure you send her yer January's income.

Your crickets could have composed a better post than that.

Unum at least pretends to acknowledge the importance of context when
he is "mistaken" in the evasion, "it's a few lines up."

JTEM is super wealthy!

2018-01-31 05:26:55 UTC

Post by Unum
I established that wind power is cheap to buy.

So, again, you are testifying to the fact that
it receives precious little in return for the
investment. Next, we couple your repeated testimony
with the cited cost of that investment and we
see that wind power is a huge loser.

Of course, you should probably stop eating paint
chips for a little while, before trying to work
out the logic here...

-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/170330864333

Paul Aubrin

2018-01-29 13:22:51 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/colorado-

renewable-energy-future

Post by Unum
The median bid for a wind project was $18.10/MWh; the median for
wind+storage was $21, just three dollars higher. The median bid for a
solar PV project was $29.50/MWh; the median bid for solar+storage was
$36, just seven dollars higher. (Keep in mind what median means: Half
the projects bid cheaper than this.)

Very low wind or solar bids get never constructed because they cannot
gather capitals in order to build them.

Unum

2018-01-29 16:00:37 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/colorado-

renewable-energy-future

Very low wind or solar bids get never constructed because they cannot
gather capitals in order to build them.

Obvious lie.

"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is routinely
purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and turbines are only
getting cheaper, bigger, and better"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

Paul Aubrin

2018-01-29 16:55:18 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/

colorado-

Post by Unum
renewable-energy-future

Very low wind or solar bids get never constructed because they cannot
gather capitals in order to build them.

Obvious lie.
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is
routinely purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and
turbines are only getting cheaper, bigger, and better"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/

The wind electricity is more en more frequently even sold at negative
prices (the producer pays to get rid of it).

Unum

2018-01-29 22:25:15 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/

colorado-

Post by Unum
renewable-energy-future

Very low wind or solar bids get never constructed because they cannot
gather capitals in order to build them.

Obvious lie.
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is
routinely purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hour—and
turbines are only getting cheaper, bigger, and better"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/
The wind electricity is more en more frequently even sold at negative
prices (the producer pays to get rid of it).

So wind power is really very cheap and you lied?

Wally W.

2018-01-30 04:04:37 UTC

Post by Unum
Maybe they should have asked for bids elsewhere.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/16/16895594/

colorado-

Post by Unum
renewable-energy-future

Very low wind or solar bids get never constructed because they cannot
gather capitals in order to build them.

Obvious lie.
"A comprehensive survey of the wind industry shows wind energy is
routinely purchased in bulk for just two cents per kilowatt-hourand
turbines are only getting cheaper, bigger, and better"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/wind-energy-is-one-of-

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/
The wind electricity is more en more frequently even sold at negative
prices (the producer pays to get rid of it).

So wind power is really very cheap and you lied?

Do you understand the difference between "very cheap" and "big
boondoggle?"

Wind power is a stupid "investment" when it only produces waste that
must be disposed of at a cost to the "investors."

Paul Aubrin

2018-02-01 13:04:22 UTC

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/
The wind electricity is more en more frequently even sold at negative
prices (the producer pays to get rid of it).

So wind power is really very cheap and you lied?

Wind power is expensive to produce (capital costs) and has little value
when sold (cheap prices, when producers don't need to pay to get rid of
their production). Without subsidies, most of them would close as this
German ZDF (TV) article explains:

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/auslaufendes-eeg-gefahr-fuer-
windkraftanlagen-100.html

columbiaaccidentinvestigation

2018-02-01 13:26:50 UTC

the-cheapest-sources-of-electricity-and-its-getting-cheaper/
The wind electricity is more en more frequently even sold at negative
prices (the producer pays to get rid of it).

So wind power is really very cheap and you lied?

Wind power is expensive to produce (capital costs) and has little value
when sold (cheap prices, when producers don't need to pay to get rid of
their production). Without subsidies, most of them would close as this
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/auslaufendes-eeg-gefahr-fuer-
windkraftanlagen-100.html

So all business models are limited to the german example where the costs of the failed nuclear experiment were found to be costly and now burden wind prices.

columbiaaccidentinvestigation

2018-01-30 13:27:16 UTC

On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 4:33:48 AM UTC-8, Paul Aubrin wrote:" the wind is free (we are told)"

You are told its delivered to the power generating site for free.

Wally W.

2018-01-30 14:09:35 UTC

On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 05:27:16 -0800 (PST),

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation
On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 4:33:48 AM UTC-8, Paul Aubrin wrote:" the wind is free (we are told)"
You are told its delivered to the power generating site for free.

Greenies aren't that explicit in their propaganda.

Wind arrives unreliably and unscheduled at a power generating site for
free -- in a form that can't be stored.

Coal exists in a mine for free, available for removal and use on
demand -- or stockpiled in a convenient form for later use.

Why was the noise level in this group so much lower a month ago?

columbiaaccidentinvestigation

2018-01-30 17:25:19 UTC

Post by Wally W.
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 05:27:16 -0800 (PST),

Greenies aren't that explicit in their propaganda.

Aubrins propaganda failed to be specific, and you failed to notice his mistake with your ever so called watchful eye for context.

Post by Wally W.
Wind arrives unreliably and unscheduled at a power generating site for
free -- in a form that can't be stored.

Keeping fossil fuels moving on time, and meeting schedules is quite a large logistics task, you seemed to be failing on that context high bar you set for yourself.

Post by Wally W.
Coal exists in a mine for free, available for removal and use on
demand -- or stockpiled in a convenient form for later use.

Again, location location location my boy, wind is delivered to the power generating location for free.

Post by Wally W.
Why was the noise level in this group so much lower a month ago?

If idiots like you held yourself to your own standards, it would be similar to a self imposed noise filter.

Paul Aubrin

2018-02-01 13:05:46 UTC

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation
On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 4:33:48 AM UTC-8, Paul Aubrin wrote:" the
wind is free (we are told)"
You are told its delivered to the power generating site for free.

It is delivered for free, costly to harvest and sometimes impossible to
sell (negative prices).

columbiaaccidentinvestigation

2018-02-01 13:10:27 UTC

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation
On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 4:33:48 AM UTC-8, Paul Aubrin wrote:" the
wind is free (we are told)"
You are told its delivered to the power generating site for free.

It is delivered for free, costly to harvest and sometimes impossible to
sell (negative prices).

So you were exaggerating, all the while failing to place fossil fuels under the same scrutiny (logistics of fuel delivery etc.) simply to smear.

Wally W.

2018-02-01 13:49:25 UTC

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 05:10:27 -0800 (PST), columbiaaccidentinvestigation

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation
On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 4:33:48 AM UTC-8, Paul Aubrin wrote:" the
wind is free (we are told)"
You are told its delivered to the power generating site for free.

It is delivered for free, costly to harvest and sometimes impossible to
sell (negative prices).

So you were exaggerating, all the while failing to place fossil fuels under the same scrutiny (logistics of fuel delivery etc.) simply to smear.

Which spins faster: 1) A windmill in a hurricane? 2) CAI?

columbiaaccidentinvestigation

2018-02-01 17:29:57 UTC

Post by columbiaaccidentinvestigation

Post by Wally W.
On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 05:10:27 -0800 (PST), columbiaaccidentinvestigation