Discussion:
attention flat earthers: da ocean ain flat/a rain barrel/a bathtub
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M***@kymhorsell.com
2018-05-10 06:03:28 UTC
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There seems to be some surprise in Dogpatch that the entire ocean's sea
level is not rising at exactly the same rate.

Hillbillies need to be reminded evvy day the world is not as simple-minded
as they imagins et ar.

<https://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/oceanography/physical-ocean/ocean-surface-topography>

Ocean Surface Topography

Orbiting spacecrafts make highly accurate measurements of the height
of the ocean surface - commonly called 'sea level' - to gather
long-term information about the world's ocean and its currents. These
measurements provide information about the topography of the ocean's
surface, which is used to study weather, climate, and other dynamic
ocean phenomena. Ocean surface topography data also have many other
applications, such as in fisheries management, navigation and offshore
operations.

Ocean and land topography are defined exactly the same way. Both give
the height of the ocean or land above the geoid. The geoid is the
shape the sea surface would have if all the currents and tides
stopped.

<Loading Image...

The height (or "relief") of the sea surface is caused by both gravity
(which doesn't change much over 100s of years) and the dynamic
(always changing) ocean circulation. In this figure, the colors
represent higher- or lower-than-normal sea-surface height.

Accurate measurements of ocean surface topography are important for
studying ocean tides, circulation and the amount of heat the ocean
holds. The observations are used to help predict short-term changes in
weather and longer-term climate patterns.

Tides and currents are the 2 major factors that contribute to the
dynamic topography of the ocean's surface. If our oceans had no tides
or currents, the sea surface would assume the shape of the geoid.

<Loading Image...

These "gravity anomaly" maps show where Earth's gravity field based on
Gravity Recovery And Climate Experiment (GRACE) data differs from a
simplified Earth model that is perfectly smooth and featureless. Areas
colored yellow, orange, or red are areas where the actual gravity
field is large, such as the Himalayan Mountains in Central Asia (top
left of the left-hand globe) - while the progressively darker shades
of blue indicate places where the gravity field is smaller-such as the
area around Hudson Bay in Canada (top center of right-hand globe).

...

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BREAKING NEWS: A BURST DAM IN KENYA HAS CAUSED "HUGE DESTRUCTION OF BOTH
LIFE AND PROPERTY", OFFICIALS SAY

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Drowning in dust: dealing with extreme weather
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Study: #HurricaneHarvey's disastrous rains directly linked to the amount of
heat stored in the ocean https://buff.ly/2wmGebo via @washingtonpost
<Loading Image...>

Climate Signals# @ClimateSignals 09 May 2018 20:55Z
At Utqia#vik (Barrow), on #Alaska's Arctic coast, this year's Jan-Apr
average of 1.2°F is more than 10°F above the 1981-2010 norm and the warmest
in 96 years of recordkeeping https://buff.ly/2Kamaex via @wunderground
<Loading Image...>

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ABC News, 10 May 2018
Mahathir Mohamad pledges his new govt will not seek "revenge" against
political opponents after his upset win in Malaysia's election.
[Former PM Najib Razak may now have cause to worry. It's a sign of
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administration in the 1980s was beset by corruption allegations. The
FBI's Kleptocracy Unit is investigation where $4.5 bn from Malaysia's
sovereign wealth funds under Najib has disappeared, a chunk of it
apparently making its way into numbered accounts in Switzerland].

Living in Wyndham, the hottest town in Australia, where roads melt and your
skin sizzles
<Loading Image...>
* WA just had its second hottest April on record and its driest in 24 years
* Why has this autumn felt more like summer?
* WA's iron ore mine closure leaves Wyndham locals jobless, 'ashamed'
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Paul Cavanagh has lived in Wyndham, Western Australia's northernmost town,
for 22 years. He describes it as a friendly little place, which at times
feels like an oven.
He once saw a road get so hot, the bitumen melted and trickled into the
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ABC News, 09 May 2018 21:36Z
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all residential property purchases by foreigners, but Mr Wyatt said the
decision would provide the state a much-needed revenue boost.

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Council tears up 'handball court' after residents complain about noisy children
ABC News, 10 May 2018
A concrete slab used by local children for handball in a small Kelvin Grove
park is ripped up by Brisbane City Council just months after it was laid due
to noise complaints.

Novartis and AT&T Spoke to Mueller's Office About Payments to Michael Cohen
New York Times, 10 May 2018 01:02Z

WEATHER AUTHORITY: Las Vegas hits record 105-degrees today
News3LV, 10 May 2018 02:40Z

US talks to oil producers about increasing output
Sam Fleming and Ed Crooks, Financial Times

Oil price shoots higher as Trump axes Iran nuclear deal
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US Pullout From Iran Nuclear Deal May Unsettle Oil Markets
New York Times, 09 May 2018 20:11Z

Wall Street lifted by oil prices after Trump pulls out of Iran deal, AMP to
face angry investors
ABC News, 09 May 2018 22:01Z
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prices boosted US energy stocks.

AMP shareholders to vent wrath at AGM as company issues unreserved apology
to Australia
ABC News, 10 May 2018
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fact half the board is due to depart reflects the gravity of issues raised
in the banking royal commission.

Siemens AG
ETR: SIE - 9 May 5:35 pm GMT+2
114.60 EUR +4.30 (3.90%) *** up 4% ***

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55.86 CAD -0.050 (0.089%) even

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ASX: AMP - 10 May 12:37 pm AEST
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American Outdoor Brands Corp
NASDAQ: AOBC - 9 May 12:08 pm GMT-4
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EPA: AIR - 9 May 5:39 pm GMT+2
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Ford Motor Company
NYSE: F - 9 May 12:07 pm GMT-4
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5y low: 10.29 on 01 Mar 2018
Wally W.
2018-05-10 11:36:53 UTC
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Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
There seems to be some surprise in Dogpatch that the entire ocean's sea
level is not rising at exactly the same rate.
Hillbillies need to be reminded evvy day the world is not as simple-minded
as they imagins et ar.
<https://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/oceanography/physical-ocean/ocean-surface-topography>
Ocean Surface Topography
Orbiting spacecrafts make highly accurate measurements of the height
of the ocean surface - commonly called 'sea level' - to gather
long-term information about the world's ocean and its currents. These
measurements provide information about the topography of the ocean's
surface, which is used to study weather, climate, and other dynamic
ocean phenomena. Ocean surface topography data also have many other
applications, such as in fisheries management, navigation and offshore
operations.
Ocean and land topography are defined exactly the same way. Both give
the height of the ocean or land above the geoid. The geoid is the
shape the sea surface would have if all the currents and tides
stopped.
<https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-pink/s3fs-public/styles/large/public/mnt/medialibrary/2010/03/31/OST1_.jpg?itok=To7IE1uo>
The height (or "relief") of the sea surface is caused by both gravity
(which doesn't change much over 100s of years) and the dynamic
(always changing) ocean circulation. In this figure, the colors
represent higher- or lower-than-normal sea-surface height.
Accurate measurements of ocean surface topography are important for
studying ocean tides, circulation and the amount of heat the ocean
holds. The observations are used to help predict short-term changes in
weather and longer-term climate patterns.
Tides and currents are the 2 major factors that contribute to the
dynamic topography of the ocean's surface. If our oceans had no tides
or currents, the sea surface would assume the shape of the geoid.
<https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-pink/s3fs-public/styles/large/public/mnt/medialibrary/2010/03/31/geoids_sm_.jpg?itok=iUDSUZPu>
These "gravity anomaly" maps show where Earth's gravity field based on
Gravity Recovery And Climate Experiment (GRACE) data differs from a
simplified Earth model that is perfectly smooth and featureless. Areas
colored yellow, orange, or red are areas where the actual gravity
field is large, such as the Himalayan Mountains in Central Asia (top
left of the left-hand globe) - while the progressively darker shades
of blue indicate places where the gravity field is smaller-such as the
area around Hudson Bay in Canada (top center of right-hand globe).
...
Recall that Kym entered this thread on this topic to do a me-too to
Bret:

:Subject: NC beaches losing 5 ft per yr in sign SLR is decades ahead of schedule
:On Wed, 9 May 2018 15:55:06 +0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell wrote:
:>Bret Cahill <***@aol.com> wrote:
:>> Surface temps ain't uniform.
:>> Why do deniers think SLR will be uniform?
:>> <CIA>
:>
:>Same reason as usual -- it's the best they can do wid da quipment dey gots.

Now let's see da quipment Kymmie gots.

Where does Kym think the sea level is greater in one place than it is
in another *because of global warming*?

How can global warming be shown to be the cause of an anomalous
increase in distance of an ocean surface above the geoid in a
particular location?

I won't abuse Bret's crickets; I'll just expect an awkward,
embarrassed silence, comparable to the vibe in a room full of greenies
when David Buckel's wannabe martyrdom is mentioned.

<MdiSP Martyr-denial-ish Silence Predicted>
Bret Cahill
2018-05-10 16:04:50 UTC
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Post by Wally W.
Now let's see da quipment Kymmie gots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations
george152
2018-05-10 20:09:51 UTC
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Post by Wally W.
Now let's see da quipment Kymmie gots.
Where does Kym think the sea level is greater in one place than it is
in another *because of global warming*?
How can global warming be shown to be the cause of an anomalous
increase in distance of an ocean surface above the geoid in a
particular location?
I won't abuse Bret's crickets; I'll just expect an awkward,
embarrassed silence, comparable to the vibe in a room full of greenies
when David Buckel's wannabe martyrdom is mentioned.
<MdiSP Martyr-denial-ish Silence Predicted>
I want to see him prove this in a swimming pool...
After all it's 'science' and should work at all levels

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Bret Cahill
2018-05-10 20:33:40 UTC
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Post by george152
I want to see him prove this in a swimming pool...
After all it's 'science' and should work at all levels
Deniers neber heard of dimensionless quantities?
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-10 21:57:49 UTC
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Post by Bret Cahill
Post by george152
I want to see him prove this in a swimming pool...
After all it's 'science' and should work at all levels
Deniers neber heard of dimensionless quantities?
I thin someone is claiming to have seen a hurricane or tsunami in their
swimming pool.

The mo dez morons mouth off about what they delude theirselves is
scientific or even resonbl thoughts the less is obvees tain worth wasting
any O2 on dem.
--
Denialists are not honest brokers in the debate. ...
[O]nce you've shown that what they say is deceptive, or prima-facie absurd,
you don't have to spend a graduate career dissecting it and taking it apart.
-- Mark Hoofnagle, http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php
Wally W.
2018-05-10 23:22:17 UTC
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Post by R Kym Horsell
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by george152
I want to see him prove this in a swimming pool...
After all it's 'science' and should work at all levels
Deniers neber heard of dimensionless quantities?
I thin someone is claiming to have seen a hurricane or tsunami in their
swimming pool.
The mo dez morons mouth off about what they delude theirselves is
scientific or even resonbl thoughts the less is obvees tain worth wasting
any O2 on dem.
Notice that Kymmie had nothing for this:

:On Thu, 10 May 2018 07:36:53 -0400, Wally W. wrote:
:>Where does Kym think the sea level is greater in one place than it is
:>in another *because of global warming*?
:>
:>How can global warming be shown to be the cause of an anomalous
:>increase in distance of an ocean surface above the geoid in a
:>particular location?
Post by R Kym Horsell
:>Same reason as usual -- it's the best they can do wid da quipment dey gots.
So far, one might conclude that "da quipment dey gots" is better than
Kymmie's.
Bret Cahill
2018-05-10 23:56:04 UTC
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Post by R Kym Horsell
Post by Bret Cahill
Post by george152
I want to see him prove this in a swimming pool...
After all it's 'science' and should work at all levels
Deniers neber heard of dimensionless quantities?
I thin someone is claiming to have seen a hurricane or tsunami in their
swimming pool.
Eber thang scales in denier fluid mechaniks!
Post by R Kym Horsell
The mo dez morons mouth off about what they delude theirselves is
scientific or even resonbl thoughts the less is obvees tain worth wasting
any O2 on dem.
Denialists are not honest brokers in the debate. ...
[O]nce you've shown that what they say is deceptive, or prima-facie absurd,
you don't have to spend a graduate career dissecting it and taking it apart.
-- Mark Hoofnagle, http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php
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