Discussion:
SA big battery saved 90% in power outage costs: report on first 4m
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M***@kymhorsell.com
2018-05-13 20:16:44 UTC
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<https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/tesla-giant-battery-south-australia-reduce-cost-power-outage-backup-system-fcas-a8348431.html#commentsDiv>

Tesla's giant battery reduces cost of power outages by 90 per cent in
South Australia

Wind-powered system responds much faster than traditional grid backups

Josh Gabbatiss Science Correspondent
12 May 2018 13:30 BST

Tesla's enormous battery in South Australia has led to a massive drop
in the costs of backing up the region's power supply, potentially
saving local people mns of dollars.

New figures presented at Australian Energy Week suggested the new
system, which is powered by wind turbines, has reduced the price of
expensive power outages by 90 per cent.

The battery was installed as a backup power supply towards the end of
2017, and has already exceeded expectations.

It has been recorded smoothing out major energy outages far quicker
than existing backups that are meant to provide emergency power, and
it has now taken a majority share of the market.

When there is a fault or maintenance is required in the Australian
power grid, the energy market operator must call for frequency control
and ancillary services (FCAS) to step in.

These services consist of costly, fossil fuel-powered backup systems.

The Tesla project, on the other hand, is based around an enormous
lithium ion battery that is capable of providing the same service not
only quicker and cheaper, but also with zero emissions.

"In the first 4 months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by
Neoen), the frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per
cent," said Godart van Gendt, a partner at consulting firm McKinsey
and Company, at the Australian Energy Week conference in Melbourne on
Thu, which was reported by clean energy news outlet RenewEconomy.

...

--
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JTEM is right
2018-05-13 20:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Australia's battery farms were designed
and built to mercilessly rape the customers.

The buy energy to charge themselves when the
rates are rock bottom, then sit on that
energy until needs AND PRICES spike through
the roof.

....previously they even crowed about how
profitable this system is for them!

And now, well, and now they're pretending it's
all charity. That, the battery farms are there
to save people money, even though they have made
millions for the energy brokers already!

NOTE: Both stories -- where they admit to raping
the market and the one where they pretend to be
doing charity work -- are completely dependent
upon sub-market prices paid to wind and solar.

THAT'S HOW THEY WORK!

They buy electricity to charge the system when prices
are at their lowest, and sell it back to the utilities
when prices are at their highest. So this requires that
wind & solar be paid as little as possible...












-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/173869547381
Unum
2018-05-14 22:14:10 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by JTEM is right
Australia's battery farms were designed
and built to mercilessly rape the customers.
So why have they resulted in lower prices?
Post by JTEM is right
The buy energy to charge themselves when the
rates are rock bottom, then sit on that
energy until needs AND PRICES spike through
the roof.
And you know this how?
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-15 23:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JTEM is right
Australia's battery farms were designed
and built to mercilessly rape the customers.
The buy energy to charge themselves when the
rates are rock bottom, then sit on that
energy until needs AND PRICES spike through
the roof.
....previously they even crowed about how
profitable this system is for them!
And now, well, and now they're pretending it's
all charity. That, the battery farms are there
to save people money, even though they have made
millions for the energy brokers already!
NOTE: Both stories -- where they admit to raping
the market and the one where they pretend to be
doing charity work -- are completely dependent
upon sub-market prices paid to wind and solar.
THAT'S HOW THEY WORK!
They buy electricity to charge the system when prices
are at their lowest, and sell it back to the utilities
when prices are at their highest. So this requires that
wind & solar be paid as little as possible...
What the greenie shrews don't tell you is that FCAS services in SA were
soaring BECAUSE of growing instability caused by windy turbins and
solarious paneling. So they install a battery to fix the problems that
they caused, and whoeee, look how much money we're "saving"! The truth
is they are still paying more for FCAS services than before the days of
windy turbins and solarious paneling.

It pretty hard to lie about the fact that pre-greenie energy policy, SA
enjoyed some of the cheapest and most reliable power in Oz. In 2003 the
avg spot price was just a mere $30/MWh!

Now it's more than triple that.

An even tougher job is to explain to mental midgets why negative pricing
is a terrible bad thing, not a great good thing.
JTEM is right
2018-05-13 20:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...

https://www.sciencealert.com/south-australia-tesla-battery-earns-million-neoen-company?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1

: Tesla's Australian battery system may have earned its owners,
: Neoen, around $1 million AUD ($800,000 USD) over the course
: of just a couple of days.
:
: [...]
:
: Based on the figures provided by Renew Economy, Neoen was able to
: sell electricity at around $14,000 AUD per MWh on January 18 and
: 19, while barely paying anything at all to generate electricity.

These batteries don't save people money, they MAKE CORPORATION
SUPER RICH at the expense of everyone else.


Unsubscribe.

That's it; unsubscribe from the whole, stinking "Global
Warming" narrative. It exists to hurt you & me while
lavishing wealth & power on the 1%... exactly like it's
already doing in the case of Tesla's "Big Batteries."









-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/173869547381
Unum
2018-05-14 22:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
Post by JTEM is right
https://www.sciencealert.com/south-australia-tesla-battery-earns-million-neoen-company?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1
: Tesla's Australian battery system may have earned its owners,
: Neoen, around $1 million AUD ($800,000 USD) over the course
: of just a couple of days.
: [...]
: Based on the figures provided by Renew Economy, Neoen was able to
: sell electricity at around $14,000 AUD per MWh on January 18 and
: 19, while barely paying anything at all to generate electricity.
These batteries don't save people money, they MAKE CORPORATION
SUPER RICH at the expense of everyone else.
They sell power at a competitive price.
Post by JTEM is right
Unsubscribe.
That's it; unsubscribe from the whole, stinking "Global
Warming" narrative. It exists to hurt you & me while
lavishing wealth & power on the 1%... exactly like it's
already doing in the case of Tesla's "Big Batteries."
So much brainless hate.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-15 18:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.

It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.

Gweenies are so economics-iggerunt they can't grasp the chimple fact
that having to support the cost of a service that you didn't actually
need before, only increases costs.

Not unlike an auto-glass biz giving small boys slingshots then telling
them to go do some target practice in the local parking lots. Great for
the auto-glass biz, but the collective cost of auto-ownership only goes up.

Chimpletons like you couldn't grasp the basic economics of a hotdog stand.
Unum
2018-05-15 20:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$ band-aid to
fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.

Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/

A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.

“In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”

South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-15 20:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
    “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.

Was it in January, when SA was paying peak rates 3x what other states
were paying?

Was it February, when peak spot was merely double the other guys?

March peak was a little better, but still the most expensive.

April, oh no! Now were back to almost double.

Comparing average to peak is an excellent indicator for how efficiently
the market is running, and also an excellent proxy for relative
efficiency between regions.

I'd have to conclude from the data that SA is sucking wind with its
arse, and the greenie zealots are lying through their teeth.

So where exactly are these impressive savings being reflected that yer
barking about?

Seems the reverse is true, compared to 2017, 2018 rates have actually
increased.

Can you point to the place on the data-doll where data didn't hurt you?


YEAR,MONTHNUMBER,MONTH,REGIONID,AVGRRP,PEAKRRP
2018,2018/01/31 00:00:00,JANUARY,NSW1,76.02,83.48
2018,2018/01/31 00:00:00,JANUARY,QLD1,75.78,82.13
2018,2018/01/31 00:00:00,JANUARY,SA1,158.76,231.01
2018,2018/01/31 00:00:00,JANUARY,TAS1,98.97,96.02
2018,2018/01/31 00:00:00,JANUARY,VIC1,133.48,182.54
2018,2018/02/28 00:00:00,FEBRUARY,NSW1,72.79,79.85
2018,2018/02/28 00:00:00,FEBRUARY,QLD1,71.84,82.76
2018,2018/02/28 00:00:00,FEBRUARY,SA1,109.17,142.88
2018,2018/02/28 00:00:00,FEBRUARY,TAS1,89.27,89.25
2018,2018/02/28 00:00:00,FEBRUARY,VIC1,97.43,123.66
2018,2018/03/31 00:00:00,MARCH,NSW1,66.71,69.42
2018,2018/03/31 00:00:00,MARCH,QLD1,62.53,66.37
2018,2018/03/31 00:00:00,MARCH,SA1,80.70,88.67
2018,2018/03/31 00:00:00,MARCH,TAS1,83.52,85.43
2018,2018/03/31 00:00:00,MARCH,VIC1,76.01,81.46
2018,2018/04/30 00:00:00,APRIL,NSW1,75.13,84.73
2018,2018/04/30 00:00:00,APRIL,QLD1,63.72,68.60
2018,2018/04/30 00:00:00,APRIL,SA1,98.37,133.69
2018,2018/04/30 00:00:00,APRIL,TAS1,80.71,80.17
2018,2018/04/30 00:00:00,APRIL,VIC1,74.04,86.12

https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM
Unum
2018-05-15 21:03:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$ band-aid
to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.

"reduced the cost of the grid service that it performs by 90% and it has
already taken a majority share of the market"
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-15 23:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for? That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little people
actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than everyone
else in the country (and getting higher).

If greenie energy policy results in rates increasing 2x or 3x, but a
battery service reduces costs by .05x, it's still a bloody disaster.

There is nothing conceptually wrong with using batteries for FCAS (they
could be just as useful to conventional generation as flaky wind and
solar) but lying about WHY is partly the reason the Rathershrill govt
got kicked the fuck out of office.
Unum
2018-05-16 02:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$ band-aid
to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little people
actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than everyone else
in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 15:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than
everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded
ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under
windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Unum
2018-05-16 15:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little people
actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than everyone
else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded ego, but
you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under windy turbins
and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 16:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale
Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher
than everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded
ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under
windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before windy
turbins and solarious paneling came along.

All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they
are paying now, and I know the answer to that.

And so do you.
Unum
2018-05-16 19:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power
Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by
Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little people
actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than everyone
else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded ego,
but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under windy
turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before windy
turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!

https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/

"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."

"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they are
paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/

"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 20:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a
$$$ band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy
actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale
Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated
by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent,
so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a
decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over
$30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher
than everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded
ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x
under windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before
windy turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they
are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact
that the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years,
correlating directly with the expansion of wind and solar.

Or put another way, kinda pointless hyping the alleged savings of a
battery when you're now paying 3X what you did before windy turbins and
solarious paneling came long.

And in what kind of language does a simple test have to be presented,
before the yipping stops? That simple test is that if solar and wind
are cheaper, then your power bill should be cheaper. If your power bill
is 3X what is used to be and climbing, then it fails the test.

As I pointed out in another post I made today, bulk wind and solar is
cheap to generate, but the cost of supporting it past the grid injection
point more than offsets any savings. This is an irrefutable truth.

It's understandable that advocates are grasping at straws when it comes
saving the green energy movement, but the alleged success or failure of
a battery doesn't change the fact that the movement has catastrophically
failed the test of delivering more economical power to consumers. Or
even close to what they used to pay, for that matter.

Many of these movements started in earnest 20 years ago, so it's not
like they haven't had ample opportunity to prove their economic merit.
Unum
2018-05-16 22:23:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually
caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service
that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power
Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by
Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so
that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in
South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline
in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30
million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little people
actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than everyone
else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded ego,
but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under windy
turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before windy
turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they are
paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact that the
price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years, correlating directly
with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?

"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-16 22:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
...
Post by Unum
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact that the
price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years, correlating directly
with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
The price of power has tripled in all states over the last 15 years,
many of these costs associated with privatisation of the different
parts of the power systems.

In Victoria I used to buy power from my local city up to ~2005.
The state govt owned the generators and the network and there was
no national market.
I paid something like $A200 per year.
As part of the deal the city did not levy any property taxes, but
let's just ignore that saving.

By 2010 the system had been privatised with different companies
buying or leasing different generators and the state controlling
the network which could not be sold because maintenance costs.
To recoup decades of gold plating in network spending fees were charged
for network access and it seems the power companies passed these on 4x
to customers. Customers also paid a hefty premium on top of what
by international standards are pretty cheap wholesale rates.
Taking into account cost of living differences as well as currency
valuations a kwh still is working out around US 4 cents.

But by the time out buy that and with the included grid costs it
works out around $A800 per year.

IOW the consumer-level cost has 4x-ed in a decade or so.

Nothign whatever to do with renewables.

There are similar stories in the other states whether they are part
of the new power market or not.

It's always amusing to hear these repeated claims from chumpsky how
expensive renewables are everywhere else when he lived in a region that gets
85% of its power from (hydro) renewables.
--
[Chom Noamsky aka Kim Dobranski code cracker:]

According to chumski periodic self-diagnosis(1,2,3,4,5):

If a post contains It signifies
[ ] venom someone hit the mark
[x] scapegoating monumental failure
[ ] insults and invective suffered stinging defeat/forced take own medicine
[x] continual negativity mental illness/everyone hates you
[x] repeating yourself a sign of pure desperation
(check all that apply)

(1)
Oh my, the venom words mean I scored a direct hit.
-- Chom Noamsky, 27 Jul 2104 1:45pm

(2)
Scapegoating is just a natural human defence mechanism for monumental failure.
-- Chom Noamsky, 28 Feb 2015

(3)
Every single one of your posts it filled with hateful insults and
invective. Now you squeal like a stuck pig when you a taste of your own
medicine. The only reason god gave you one more brain cell than a cow
was so that you wouldn't shit on the floor while fliping burgers.
And now that you got your ass handed to you, fuck off you violently
idiotic piece of braindead shit.
-- Chom Noamsky, 31 Jan 2016

(4)
You posting career is obsessed with fearmongering, pessimism and
negativity, who are you trying to kid. The people around you must
suffer from depression (or maybe offed themselves already).
Just not a healthy attitude.
-- Chom Noamsky <***@er.yummy>, 25 Mar 2015

(5)
Repeating yourself is a sign of pure desperation.
-- Chom Noamsky, 28 Feb 2018 11:08 PM
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 23:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a
$$$ band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy
actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid
service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of
the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale
Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and
operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent,
so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent
of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the
capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a
decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over
$30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher
than everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile
wounded ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA
growing 3x under windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before
windy turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what
they are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact
that the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years,
correlating directly with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
Then why is the price of power in SA now much more expensive that it was
when coal was king?

There is no possible answer you can come up with, other than "cuz wind
and solar and batteries".

You can't escape my trap of truth.
Unum
2018-05-17 00:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$
band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy actually
caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid
service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the
market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale
Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by
Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so
that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of
the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity in
South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a
decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30
million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher than
everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded
ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x under
windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before windy
turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they
are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact that
the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years, correlating
directly with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
Then why is the price of power in SA now much more expensive that it was when
coal was king?
There is no possible answer you can come up with, other than "cuz wind and
solar and batteries".
You can't escape my trap of truth.
Kym seems to have explained it. chumpsky peddles this same crap here
over and over.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-17 00:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know
he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em
a $$$ band-aid to fix the instability that your energy
policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service
cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid
service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share
of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the
Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and
operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per
cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per
cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the
capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South
Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen
a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at
over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling
little people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA
is higher than everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile
wounded ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA
growing 3x under windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before
windy turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what
they are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary
services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact
that the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years,
correlating directly with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
Then why is the price of power in SA now much more expensive that it
was when coal was king?
There is no possible answer you can come up with, other than "cuz wind
and solar and batteries".
You can't escape my trap of truth.
Kym seems to have explained it. chumpsky peddles this same crap here
over and over.
Kym lives in my spam filter.

That leaves you to either parrot what he said, or explain all on your
own why power in SA has gone from $30-50/MWh in the early 2000s, to
$90-300/MWh in 2018.
Unum
2018-05-17 01:23:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's
right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a
$$$ band-aid to fix the instability that your energy policy
actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid
service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the
market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale
Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated
by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so
that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of
the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the capacity
in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South
Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has seen a
decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over
$30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services costs
decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling little
people actually pay for power, and what they pay in SA is higher
than everyone else in the country (and getting higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile wounded
ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA growing 3x
under windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than before
windy turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and what they
are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the fact that
the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15 years, correlating
directly with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
Then why is the price of power in SA now much more expensive that it was
when coal was king?
There is no possible answer you can come up with, other than "cuz wind and
solar and batteries".
You can't escape my trap of truth.
Kym seems to have explained it. chumpsky peddles this same crap here
over and over.
Kym lives in my spam filter.
Not my problem if your head is up your ass.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-17 01:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know
he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell
'em a $$$ band-aid to fix the instability that your
energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla’s giant battery in Australia reduced grid service
cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the
grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share
of the market.
     “In the first four months of operations of the
Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and
operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per
cent, so that’s 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per
cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Australia. So it’s 2 per cent of the
capacity in South
Australia achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South
Australia.”
South Australia is reportedly the only state that has
seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at
over $30 million in
just a few months.
Show me where the savings are reflected in the bottom line.
What for? Did frequency control and ancillary services
costs decline by
90% or not? Because that's the service the battery actually
performs.
What for?  That line at the bottom is what the grovelling
little people actually pay for power, and what they pay in
SA is higher than everyone else in the country (and getting
higher).
Apparently a success story for battery storage sends
denialist scum
into a complete, unhinged frenzy. The battery doesn't make pancakes
either. So why are pancake prices so high?
You can imagine anything you want if it soothes your fragile
wounded ego, but you can't lie about the price of power in SA
growing 3x under windy turbins and solarious paneling.
Someone is trying awful hard to change the subject. Did frequency control
and ancillary services costs decline by 90% or not?
It's only a success if the costs of FCAS are lower now than
before windy turbins and solarious paneling came along.
Batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels are all the same thing? OMFG
this is so hilarious!
https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-offers-7m-solar-wind-farm-fcas-trials-25298/
"The Australian Renewable Energy Agency has announced funding of $7 million to
encourage more wind farms, solar parks and battery installations to trial the
provision of grid security services as the share of renewables continues to
grow."
"Trials have also been successfully completed at the neighbouring Hornsdale
wind farm, which also showed that wind farms can provide cheaper and more
accurate services than gas generators"
Post by Chom Noamsky
All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before RE and
what they are paying now, and I know the answer to that.
And so do you.
All you have to do is pull your head out of your ass.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-solar-to-fill-grid-services-as-incumbents-cash-in-while-they-can-23385/
"Research by the Climate and Energy Institute points to a five-fold increase
in costs associated with the FCAS (frequency and ancillary services) market
since 2014, to $200 million – with many of these rises occurring in states
with little or no renewable energy, and no apparent lift in demand for the
services."
You can yip 'til yer blue in the face, but you can't refute the
fact that the price of power in SA has tripled in the last 15
years, correlating directly with the expansion of wind and solar.
Lol, running away from "All I have to do is look at what SA was paying before
RE and what they are paying now" because it was so clearly refuted?
"a five-fold increase in costs associated with the FCAS ... occurring in
states with little or no renewable energy"
Then why is the price of power in SA now much more expensive that it
was when coal was king?
There is no possible answer you can come up with, other than "cuz
wind and solar and batteries".
You can't escape my trap of truth.
Kym seems to have explained it. chumpsky peddles this same crap here
over and over.
Kym lives in my spam filter.
Not my problem if your head is up your ass.
Is this your exit?
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-17 01:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Kym lives in my spam filter.
Not my problem if your head is up your ass.
The attribution trail seems to give the lie to dohbrainski's filter tech.
--
Tesla Inc
NASDAQ: TSLA - Closed: 16 May 4:30 pm GMT-4
286.48 USD +2.30 (0.81%) up

Cabot Oil & Gas Corporation
NYSE: COG - Closed: 16 May 4:13 pm GMT-4
23.28 USD +0.080 (0.34%) up

Exxon Mobil Corporation
NYSE: XOM - Closed: 16 May 4:09 pm GMT-4
82.02 USD +0.23 (0.28%) up

Suncor Energy Inc. (USA)
TSE: SU - 16 May 4:00 pm GMT-4
52.44 CAD -0.070 (0.13%) down

Gazprom PAO
MCX: GAZP - 16 May 6:49 pm GMT+3
148.59 RUB -0.61 (0.41%) down

Facebook, Inc. Common Stock
NASDAQ: FB - Closed: 16 May, 4:35 pm GMT-4
183.20 USD -1.12 (0.61%) down

TC PIPELINES LP Common Stock
TSE: TRP - 16 May 4:00 pm GMT-4
54.69 CAD -0.92 (1.65%) *** down 1.7% ***
Unum
2018-05-17 02:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R Kym Horsell
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Kym lives in my spam filter.
Not my problem if your head is up your ass.
The attribution trail seems to give the lie to dohbrainski's filter tech.
Armchair fakespert in Canada knows so much more about electricity in
Australia than the people who live there.
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-17 02:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R Kym Horsell
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Kym lives in my spam filter.
Not my problem if your head is up your ass.
The attribution trail seems to give the lie to dohbrainski's filter tech.
I predict his filter tech will also fail and he will reply to the above.
--
Post by R Kym Horsell
This guy used to be some kind of scientist? Or was it a case of those
wot can does, those wot cant teach, and those wot cant teach manage.
And those that can't do science, throw shit like a monkey.
-- Marvin the Martian aka ***@Boulder <***@ontomars.org>, 16 Mar 2012 06:59 -0500
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-15 23:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
So much brainless hate.
Your brainless hatred is explained by the fact you know he's right.
Lil' yippy projecting yet again?
Post by Chom Noamsky
It is a great swindle, destabilize the grid, then sell 'em a $$$ band-aid to
fix the instability that your energy policy actually caused.
No cite means chumpsky is lying as usual.
Tesla's giant battery in Austroya reduced grid service cost by 90%
https://electrek.co/2018/05/11/tesla-giant-battery-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost/
A new report now shows that it reduced the cost of the grid service that it
performs by 90% and it has already taken a majority share of the market.
"In the first four months of operations of the Hornsdale Power Reserve
(the official name of the Tesla big battery, owned and operated by Neoen), the
frequency ancillary services prices went down by 90 per cent, so that's 9-0
per cent. And the 100MW battery has achieved over 55 per cent of the FCAS
revenues in South Austroya. So it's 2 per cent of the capacity in South
Austroya achieving 55 per cent of the revenues in South Austroya."
South Austroya is reportedly the only state that has seen a decline in FCAS
costs over the period. Some estimates put the savings at over $30 million in
just a few months.
The next thing coming in the pipeline is the AUS fed govt has requested
a "please explain" from power companies after an audit revealed
the charges passed on to customers for "grid" costs were magically
inflated 4x over the actual expense paid by the companies.

I remember a couple ys back I swaped from one provider that was charging
me $800 pa for the grid connection to another company that provided
exactly the same poles & wires for only $200 pa.

This rort has likely been going for 10 years at least but the govt
is facing an election inside 6m and they've been behind in the polls
for 8m straight.

--
[Something you don't see in your bathtub:]

FAQ - Pacific Tsunami Warning Center - National Weather Service
500 miles per hour
Where the ocean is over 6,000 meters (3.7 miles) deep, unnoticed tsunami
waves can travel at the speed of a commercial jet plane, over 800 km per
hour (500 miles per hour). Tsunamis travel much slower in shallower coastal
waters where their wave heights begin to increase dramatically.
-- ptwc.weather.gov/faq.php
JTEM is right
2018-05-16 04:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
simple words:

The. Market. Decides.

The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.

The 1% make the laws, the rules, created the crisis
and then sold everyone the over expensive solution.

This is the furthest thing from capitalism.





-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/173929191603
Unum
2018-05-16 15:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 16:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.

And yeah, basically capitalism is the market decides, and market choice
generally defaults to the product or service that gives the most bang
for the buck.

This is why RE proponents are having such fits with capitalism while
pretending to be capitalists.

They only way greenies can change the market default is to outlaw, tax
and disfavour the default, cuz their crappy warez can't compete on a
level playing field.
JTEM is right
2018-05-16 19:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
And yeah, basically capitalism is the market decides, and market choice
generally defaults to the product or service that gives the most bang
for the buck.
I'm the first to admit that coal is problematic,
the dirtiest of the fuels, but all of us (even
the hysterical "Global Warming" mob) know that if
left to consumers, we'd have *Oodles* more coal
fired plants. It's a cheap, easy & stable solution.

Maybe national security or economic concerns or even
environmental issues mean that we can't leave things
entirely up to the market to decide. If so, say so.
Make your case. Explain your reasoning. But don't
ass rape everyone and then tell us that we asked for
it, like they're doing to us now.




-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/150977983418
Unum
2018-05-16 19:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 21:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did before
the green energy movement?
Unum
2018-05-16 22:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did before the
green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-16 23:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did
before the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and
batteries, if there are none. All it takes is five seconds with Google
to prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15 years.

The performance of a single support component of a system does not
change the overall economics of wind and solar from fail to pass.

Greenies are so desperate for vindication, they will grasp at any little
thing they think will make a shit sandwich taste like caviar.
Unum
2018-05-17 00:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did before the
green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and batteries,
if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds with Google to prove that
power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15 years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/

Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.

It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.

It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-17 00:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did
before the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and
batteries, if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds with
Google to prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15
years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/
Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.
It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.
It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
The hilarious flaw in the above conspiracy theory is how can gas
generators "exploit the market" if wind and solar can supply cheaper power?

Wouldn't that just create opportunities for wind and solar to underbid
and undercut gas, and cost the gas industry market share?

You guys never think these things through farther than the superficial
spoon-feeding layer that the original crap-blog fed you.
Unum
2018-05-17 01:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did before
the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and
batteries, if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds with Google to
prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15 years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/
Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.
It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.
It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
The hilarious flaw in the above conspiracy theory is how can gas generators
"exploit the market" if wind and solar can supply cheaper power?
Wouldn't that just create opportunities for wind and solar to underbid and
undercut gas, and cost the gas industry market share?
Probably they do but are only a minor share of the market. So the explanation
serves quite well, and beats chumpsky's "absolutely nothing".

Keep on running, boy!
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-17 01:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did
before the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and
batteries, if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds with
Google to prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15
years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/
Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.
It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.
It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
The hilarious flaw in the above conspiracy theory is how can gas
generators "exploit the market" if wind and solar can supply cheaper power?
Wouldn't that just create opportunities for wind and solar to underbid
and undercut gas, and cost the gas industry market share?
Probably they do but are only a minor share of the market. So the explanation
serves quite well, and beats chumpsky's "absolutely nothing".
Keep on running, boy!
If you eliminate the spot pricing from the average during the periods of
alleged gaming, it still doesn't account for the overall hike in power
rates. Not even close. All the historical data is on the AEMO site.

And... go!
Unum
2018-05-17 02:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did before
the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar and
batteries, if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds with Google
to prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the last 15 years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/
Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.
It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.
It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
The hilarious flaw in the above conspiracy theory is how can gas generators
"exploit the market" if wind and solar can supply cheaper power?
Wouldn't that just create opportunities for wind and solar to underbid and
undercut gas, and cost the gas industry market share?
Probably they do but are only a minor share of the market. So the explanation
serves quite well, and beats chumpsky's "absolutely nothing".
Keep on running, boy!
If you eliminate the spot pricing from the average during the periods of
alleged gaming, it still doesn't account for the overall hike in power rates.
Not even close.  All the historical data is on the AEMO site.
Sounds like a personal opinion. This is all you could come up with
5 seconds of google?
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-17 02:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Sounds like a personal opinion. This is all you could come up with
5 seconds of google?
This is the old denier "my nebulous idea is backed up by stuff in
the Library of Congress -- go look in there".

In this case we've seen the AEMO data before.

E.g. we can ask how much does increasing temps in the S Hem
affect SA electricity prices?

Obviously, this effect must be subtracted if we are at all to
look at whether and what other effects have caused long term trends
in prices.

Here's the data from 2014 upto a few days back in May 2018.


DATA:
Date SH temp (LOTI) SA avg rrp model
(m y) (1/100 C) ($A/MWh)

Mar 2014 36 51.7803 44.2249
Feb 2014 37 54.4176 44.8751
July 2014 39 32.7207 46.2044*
... 46 39.9434 51.1747
... 47 60.6799 51.9271
... 47 59.2464 51.9271
... 48 38.0283 52.6906*
... 50 69.3382 54.2514
... 51 51.9837 55.049
... 51 50.2737 55.049
... 51 41.6508 55.049*
... 53 48.8603 56.6797
... 53 79.6618 56.6797*
... 54 59.0783 57.513
... 54 41.111 57.513*
... 55 84.2592 58.3586*
... 58 73.5079 60.9708
... 58 66.8329 60.9708
... 60 58.5992 62.7768
... 63 61.8526 65.5867
... 66 44.8482 68.5224*
... 69 105.485 71.5895*
... 69 90.7359 71.5895
... 72 66.2215 74.7938
... 72 109.166 74.7938*
... 73 55.3301 75.8935*
... 76 70.6531 79.2905
... 76 123.078 79.2905*
... 76 83.4977 79.2905
... 76 49.5827 79.2905*
... 77 108.823 80.4563*
... 78 59.8374 81.6392*
... 80 113.386 84.0575*
... 89 73.6128 95.8576
... 91 97.3651 98.6971

MODEL:
y = 26.1497*exp(0.0145958*x)
beta in 0.0145958 +- 0.0053775 90% CI
P(beta>0.000000) = 0.999970
r2 = 0.390015

IOW the model explains ~40% of the month-to-month variation in
SA electricity prices. It seems a/c demand is a significant factor
in determining demand and therefore price. The coolest month
back in 2014 (only +.36C above the 1950s for the S Hem) was
expected to see about $A 4.4 cents/kwh (i.e. ~2.9 US cents accounting
for PPP) while the warmest month in the last 4 years saw an avg
monthly price of 9.8 AU cents/khw (== 6.2 US cents/kwh).


If we subtract this temperature effect the remaining savings from
the big battery switch on *really* stand out. :)

--
Tesla Inc
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Exxon Mobil Corporation
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Suncor Energy Inc. (USA)
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Facebook, Inc. Common Stock
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183.20 USD -1.12 (0.61%) down

TC PIPELINES LP Common Stock
TSE: TRP - 16 May 4:00 pm GMT-4
54.69 CAD -0.92 (1.65%) *** down 1.7% ***
Unum
2018-05-17 03:23:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R Kym Horsell
Post by Unum
Sounds like a personal opinion. This is all you could come up with
5 seconds of google?
This is the old denier "my nebulous idea is backed up by stuff in
the Library of Congress -- go look in there".
In this case we've seen the AEMO data before.
E.g. we can ask how much does increasing temps in the S Hem
affect SA electricity prices?
Obviously, this effect must be subtracted if we are at all to
look at whether and what other effects have caused long term trends
in prices.
y = 26.1497*exp(0.0145958*x)
beta in 0.0145958 +- 0.0053775 90% CI
P(beta>0.000000) = 0.999970
r2 = 0.390015
IOW the model explains ~40% of the month-to-month variation in
SA electricity prices. It seems a/c demand is a significant factor
in determining demand and therefore price. The coolest month
back in 2014 (only +.36C above the 1950s for the S Hem) was
expected to see about $A 4.4 cents/kwh (i.e. ~2.9 US cents accounting
for PPP) while the warmest month in the last 4 years saw an avg
monthly price of 9.8 AU cents/khw (== 6.2 US cents/kwh).
Wait now, you seem to be saying that the hotter weather that can't have
happened because We Are In An Ice Age has increased demand for electricity
so the price went up.
Post by R Kym Horsell
If we subtract this temperature effect the remaining savings from
the big battery switch on *really* stand out. :)
R Kym Horsell
2018-05-17 04:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Unum <***@yourbusiness.com> wrote:
...
Post by Unum
Wait now, you seem to be saying that the hotter weather that can't have
happened because We Are In An Ice Age has increased demand for electricity
so the price went up.
...

The absolutely only logical explanation:
* we are in a new ice age
* even average temperatures we remember from the past seem unbearably hot now
* this explains why a/c units are stampeding off shelves worldwide
--
As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it
wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had
to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I realized
that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent in
finding mistakes in my own programs.
-- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949
Unum
2018-05-17 13:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by R Kym Horsell
...
Post by Unum
Wait now, you seem to be saying that the hotter weather that can't have
happened because We Are In An Ice Age has increased demand for electricity
so the price went up.
...
* we are in a new ice age
* even average temperatures we remember from the past seem unbearably hot now
* this explains why a/c units are stampeding off shelves worldwide
I wonder if there is a 'correlation' between the amount of electricity
used to power A/C, residential electric bills, and the price of ice cream?

That would explain everything, I'll check the blogs going back a
decade or two.
JTEM is right
2018-05-17 17:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Confirmation: "Global Warming" hysterics is
based on IGNORANCE of climate science!
Post by R Kym Horsell
* we are in a new ice age
It's not new. The Quaternary Period is an
ice age -- a period marked by a glacial /
interglacial cycle -- and the Quaternary
Period encompasses the whole of human
evolution.

Quite literally, the first "Human" was Homo
habilis, and he appears in the fossil record
for the first time during this ice age.




-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/150631579357

Chom Noamsky
2018-05-17 03:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Post by Unum
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
Its called capitalism.
No it's not. Capitalism can be defined in three
The. Market. Decides.
The market doesn't want unstable energy. It doesn't
want to cross it's fingers and how it can afford to
turn on the lights right now.
Mindless bloviation. Meanwhile, the Tesla battery provides frequency
control and ancillary services cheaper than anything else.
Repeating yourself after being refuted just proves you were refuted.
Mindless bloviation doesn't refute anything, and it sure doesn't refute
the claim that the Tesla battery provides frequency control and ancillary
services cheaper than anything else. "The. Market. Decides.", lol!
So why are South Australians paying power bills 3X what they did
before the green energy movement?
Do you think it has anything to do with the thread topic? Is the Tesla
battery which went into operation at the end of 2017 to blame? Someone
seems awfully desperate to change the subject.
You can't campaign on the economic advantages of wind and solar
and batteries, if there are none.  All it takes is five seconds
with Google to prove that power prices in SA have tripled in the
last 15 years.
And so many other things have gone up and down as well. Seeing as how chumpsky
has absolutely nothing, this clearly shows the actual situation.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-generators-hold-south-australia-consumers-ransom-45108/
Wholesale electricity prices in South Australia soared again on Tuesday in
what is being seen as another example of the small cabal of gas generators
exploiting their market power to push up prices.
It comes as yet another investigation by the Australian Energy Regulator
highlights how the same generators pushed the price of frequency and ancillary
services to stratospheric heights in October, just as they had done a few
weeks earlier.
It highlights, yet again, the fundamental problem with the
Australian energy
market. It has less to do with wind, solar or any technology than the market
power of the incumbent generators, who have created market rules that allow
them to exploit and distort pricing.
The hilarious flaw in the above conspiracy theory is how can gas
generators "exploit the market" if wind and solar can supply cheaper power?
Wouldn't that just create opportunities for wind and solar to
underbid and undercut gas, and cost the gas industry market share?
Probably they do but are only a minor share of the market. So the explanation
serves quite well, and beats chumpsky's "absolutely nothing".
Keep on running, boy!
If you eliminate the spot pricing from the average during the periods
of alleged gaming, it still doesn't account for the overall hike in
power rates. Not even close.  All the historical data is on the AEMO
site.
Sounds like a personal opinion. This is all you could come up with
5 seconds of google?
No, I found this too:

"Price gouging by conventional generators principally depends on the
inevitable failure of the wind and sun to deliver power around the clock..."

***

AGL ‘raping, gouging’ under green guise: Richard Cottee

The Australian
Matt Chambers
8 December 2017

Central Petroleum chief Richard Cottee has delivered an extra­ordinary
attack on AGL Energy’s plans to close the Liddell power station in the
NSW Hunter Valley in 2022, accusing the power giant of pursuing higher
power prices to drive up profit under the guise of a clean energy agenda.

AGL chief executive Andy Vesey has committed to provide to Malcolm
Turnbull by December 12 a detailed plan to replace Liddell with reliable
non-coal generation, after the Prime Minister demanded the energy boss
take a request to his board to extend the life of Liddell or sell it to
someone who would.

Since the Prime Minister’s September request, AGL chairman Graeme Hunt
and Mr Vesey, who say AGL will shut all its coal generation by 2050,
have made it clear they have no intention of extending the life of the
ageing power plant.

Instead, they plan to replace it with a mixture of gas power,
renewables, demand management and batteries.

Mr Cottee, a former Queensland Gas Company executive who also ran
Queensland state generator CS Energy when it built three baseload power
plants, said Liddell’s closure would increase volatility and prices.
“With Liddell closing, the volatility of the electricity market will
increase — there will be more ‘vol. events’,” he told a Sydney Mining
Club lunch yesterday.

He described these “vol. events” as when power prices spiked to more
than $250 per MWh, saying that the power system was designed to deal
with only three or four of these a year.
When power sold for the upper National Electricity Market limit of
$14,000 per MWh, it was the equivalent of selling gas for $1500 per
gigajoule, he said.

“If you can increase the number of vol. events by decreasing reliable
generation, you will have a very profitable model,” Mr Cottee said.
“If you can combine sanctimonious rectitude with capitalist greed, you
are absolutely superb … you are saving the planet while raping the
population … gouging is done for a morally higher purpose, is what it
appears to me as what could be happening.”

AGL, which has previously said extending Liddell would be too expensive
and that it could provide a reliable transition plan, declined to
comment yesterday.

Matt Chambers went on to cover a run of spin from AGL about its
renewables ‘street-cred’ and a blame-shifting pitch from the AER. Price
gouging by conventional generators principally depends on the inevitable
failure of the wind and sun to deliver power around the clock – the key
reason for SA’s rocketing power prices: South Australia’s Unbridled Wind
Power Insanity: Wind Power Collapses see Spot Prices Rocket from $70 to
$13,800 per MWh

Now that Jay Weatherill has plugged into his $150m Elon Musk
mega-battery, we can’t wait to hear the excuses when power prices rocket
again (inevitable) and South Australians are plunged into darkness when
the wind stops blowing (just as inevitable). Here’s The Australian’s
Nick Cater, collecting some of Jay Weatherill’s more pathetic excuses.
JTEM is right
2018-05-16 19:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Mindless bloviation, Unum wrote:
[...]

Capitalism literally means "The Market Decides."

We don't have capitalism, especially in the energy
sector. The problem isn't capitalism the solution
is.






-- --

http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/150977983418
Chom Noamsky
2018-05-15 17:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JTEM is right
Tesla's "Big Battery" is designed to squeeze as much
money out of the bank accounts of the little people as
it can. They do this by paying next to nothing for wind
and solar energy, when the sun is shining and the wind
is blowing, and then selling it to the energy brokers
at ridiculously high prices when it's needed...
https://www.sciencealert.com/south-australia-tesla-battery-earns-million-neoen-company?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1
: Tesla's Australian battery system may have earned its owners,
: Neoen, around $1 million AUD ($800,000 USD) over the course
: of just a couple of days.
: [...]
: Based on the figures provided by Renew Economy, Neoen was able to
: sell electricity at around $14,000 AUD per MWh on January 18 and
: 19, while barely paying anything at all to generate electricity.
These batteries don't save people money, they MAKE CORPORATION
SUPER RICH at the expense of everyone else.
Unsubscribe.
That's it; unsubscribe from the whole, stinking "Global
Warming" narrative. It exists to hurt you & me while
lavishing wealth & power on the 1%... exactly like it's
already doing in the case of Tesla's "Big Batteries."
Yup, batteries "solve" a stabilization problem that didn't actually
exist before flaky breeze and sunshine power came along. Cause the
problem, then characterize your mega-$$$ band-aid fix as a heroic
technology solution. The naive green shrews gobble it up like poo from
Al Gore's bum. On the bright side, the greenie SA govt has been turfed
from power. Rathershrill himself framed the election as a referendum on
their energy policy, and the people spaketh. Huge blow to greenie
credibility. When business booms for diesel and gas gensets (as it did
in SA over the last couple of years) you know the problem is real.

Cahillbilly here on agw is representative of the greenie incapacity for
reason, doesn't think civilization should expect the power to be on
24/7/365. Basically, greenies admit their power schemes are flaky and
actually try to justify it. They can just move to Venezuela if they
want to experience what life is like without reliable 24/7/365 power,
where one might be lucky to get power for a few hours a day, every
second or third day, depending on what region you live in. Some areas
have been blacked-out for weeks even months. Given that energy is the
foundation of civilization, one can imagine just how profound the
impacts have been. The Bullshitarian Revolution was premised on lifting
the poor out of poverty, and after nearly 20 years of socialism, they
are poorer than they ever were. When the revolution started, something
like 70% were living in poveryy or extreme poverty. Now it's 83%. Tragic.

The guys who actually manage the grid in VZ say the problem is the
perpetual and chronic lack of resources/investment from the state, it's
literally falling apart. But reality makes the socialist govt look bad,
so it lies and tells the public it's because the capitalists caused
global warming and made all of God's great hydroelectric reservoirs
fizzle. Meanwhile, VZ is sitting on so much gas the country could
literally explode, but they can't develop it because they chased all the
capitalists out of the country. Don't blame govt incompetence when your
hovel is dark and smelly and sweltering, blame mysterious external
forces, Great Satan, capitalist exploiters, etc etc. Greenies and
socialists always blame others for their own failures.

There is currently underway a mass exodus of anyone who can flee VZ,
because life in the socialist dungheap has been reduced to basic
survival. Your typical greenie is a crypto-marxist watermelon itching
for their own Bullshitarian Revolution... they are green on the outside
but quite red on the inside.

And not far away in Costa Rica, the greenies like to boast about how the
little nation is running on nearly 100% renewable power. What they
don't tell you is the river systems that have been damned-up to do so,
cuz the great majority of renewable power there is hydro. Sections of
rivers I used to have a blast whitewater kayaking down back in the '90s
are now flooded deep (I worked for two summers as a safety kayaker for
the rafting companies down there).

This is what a good part of the Reventazon looks like now.

http://qcostarica.com/costa-rica-inaugurated-largest-hydroelectric-plant-in-central-america/

Yeah, so where are all the windy turbans and solarious paneling?

I'm generally not against hydro-power, with the exception of places that
have high tourism and nature value, and this was such a place. But I am
generally against greenie hypocrisy, they wail and moan about hydro
development as loudly as they do about nuclear and fossil, then turn
around and brag about it when the numbers become convenient, and hide
the fact that windy turbins and solarious paneling are just a small
component of the RE pie.

Greenie crypto-marxist watermelons in general are absolutely the worst
liars. They make claims about how much money people are "saving" with
their various schemes and machinations, and then you look at what public
and industry actually pay for RE, and it's always substantially higher
than conventional. Or they find a heavily subsidized RE provider as an
example and cover up the fact that Joe & Jane Public are paying for a
good portion of it. In Ontario they made 20-year contracts with windy
turbin owners at rates far above market, then end up having to dump the
power in the U.S. for as little as $20/MWh, because windy turbins choose
when they want to produce. So basically they lose $100-210 on every MWh
of wind generated for the next two decades, which collectively adds up
to $170 billion (along with all the other fuck-ups). Liberal support in
Ontario has imploded, the probability of a Conservative victory in the
election is approaching 100%. A good part of that is explained by the
unprecedented levels of energy poverty caused by Ontario Liberals. Just
like in S. Australia, the greenies pushed the agenda aggressively, it
failed to deliver the promised utopia, and then they get the bum's rush.

There isn't a jurisdiction on the planet where greenie power has saved
anyone a red cent, but the agenda is to lie through their teeth and
claim otherwise. Its ideological warfare by green punks shooting blanks.
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