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batteries cheaper than gas
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M***@kymhorsell.com
2017-07-13 13:00:02 UTC
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Chip chip chip chip.

<https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608273/
grid-batteries-are-poised-to-become-cheaper-than-natural-gas-plants-in-minnesota/>

Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota

A new report suggests the economics of large-scale batteries are reaching an important inflection point.

Michael Reilly
July 12, 2017
MIT Technology Review

[Image] A 60-acre solar farm in Camp Ripley, a National Guard base in Minnesota.

When it comes to renewable energy, Minnesota isn't typically a headline-grabber: in 2016 it got about 18% of its energy from wind, good enough to rank in the top 10 states. But it's just 28th in terms of installed solar capacity, and its relatively small size means projects within its borders rarely garner the attention that giants like California and TX routinely get.

A new report on the future of energy in the state should turn some heads (PDF). According to the University of Minnesota's Energy Transition Lab, starting in 2019 and for the foreseeable future, the overall cost of building grid-scale storage there will be less than that of building natural-gas plants to meet future energy demand.

Minnesota currently gets about 21% of its energy from renewables. That's not bad, but current plans also call for bringing an additional 1,800 MWs of gas-fired "peaker" plants online by 2028 to meet growing demand. As the moniker suggests, these plants are meant to spin up quickly to meet daily peaks in energy demand-something renewables tend to be bad at because the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine.

Storing energy from renewables could solve that problem, but it's traditionally been thought of as too expensive compared with other forms of energy.

The new report suggests otherwise. According to the analysis, bringing lithium-ion batteries online for grid storage would be a good way to stockpile energy for when it's needed, and it would prove less costly than building and operating new natural-gas plants.

The finding comes at an interesting time. For one thing, the price of lithium-ion batteries continues to plummet, something that certainly has the auto industry's attention. And grid-scale batteries, while still relatively rare, are popping up more and more these days. The Minnesota report, then, suggests that such projects may become increasingly common-and could be a powerful way to lower emissions without sending our power bills skyrocketing in the process.

--
Electric cars to account for all new vehicle sales in Europe by 2035
The Guardian, 13 Jul 2017 11:48Z

Ten Thousand Voices on Marine Climate Change in Europe: Different
Perceptions among Demographic Groups and Nationalities
A new paper presents the results of an opinion poll of 10,000 European
citizens in 10 countries on levels of awareness and concern about the
impacts of climate change on the marine environment. Respondents were
least aware of ocean acidification and most aware of melting sea ice -
as well as pollution and overfishing, the study says. Participants
living in coastal areas claimed to be both more informed and more
concerned on climate change than those living inland, as did females
and older age groups. In terms of trust in sources of information,
academic scientists or those working for environmental NGOs are
trusted more than scientists working for govt or industry, the
study suggests. -- Frontiers in Marine Science

[Yet Another Thermometer:]
The impacts of rising temperatures on aircraft takeoff performance
Rising air temperatures may make it harder for commercial aircraft to
takeoff, requiring restrictions on how much weight they carry, a new
study suggests. As air temperatures increase at constant pressure, air
density declines, resulting in less lift generation by an aircraft
wing at a given airspeed. Modelling 5 common aircraft at 19 major
airports, the study finds that 10-30% of annual flights departing in
the hottest part of the day by the mid-to-late 21st century may
require some weight restriction. -- Climatic Change

Shell sells #1bn stake in Irish gas project
-- Joel Lewin, Financial Times

[She'll be right, mate!]
Melbourne suffers peak-hour train delays after computer fault
ABC News, 13 Jul 2017 09:28Z
Melbourne commuters are experiencing frustrating delays after Metro Trains'
entire network came to a standstill this afternoon because of a computer fault.
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<https://twitter.com/cyenne40/status/885389583562571776/photo/1>
<https://twitter.com/heylauralouise/status/885398224021757952/photo/1>

100%sloane @Unsophistikate
All trains down. Boom gates stuck so buses are blocked.
Ubers surge 1000% Guess I'll just die then. #metrotrains
5:07 PM - 13 Jul 2017 · Melbourne, Victoria

Christine Craik @christine_craik
Thanks to the uber driver quoting $300 for a $50 trip after the trains
ground to a halt in Melbourne tonight, that's the spirit!
7:13 PM - 13 Jul 2017 · Victoria, Australia

Tiril Stenhammer @TirilStenhammer
How does the train network crash in peak hour. #metrotrains #metrofail
5:09 PM - 13 Jul 2017

Sri Lankan navy rescues elephant washed out to sea
ABC News, 13 Jul 2017
The Sri Lankan navy rescued an elephant dragged away by the current about 13
kilometres off the shore of Kokilai.

Zeke Hausfather @hausfath 13 Jul 2017 03:25Z
Last few days bring to mind a great Schneider quote on climate: "the end of
the world and good for us are the 2 least likely outcomes"

Temperatures to soar as high pressure edges across UK for latest ...
The Weather Channel, 13 Jul 2017 08:43Z

Tim Osborn @TimOsbornClim 13 Jul 2017 09:23Z
1/ Some people claim recent global warming has been fabricated by adjusting
temperature data in new dataset versions. Those claims are wrong
[Series back to 1999 pretty much the same:]
<Loading Image...>

Southern Europe swelters as heatwave sparks wildfires and closes tourist sites
The Guardian, 13 Jul 2017 11:43Z

Hospital Evacuated After Power Outage, Floods Remains Closed
AP, 13 July 2017 6:55 a.m.
A suburban Chicago hospital remains closed after being evacuated due to
power outages caused by flooding.
DESMODUS
2017-07-13 14:11:31 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Chip chip chip chip.
<https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608273/
grid-batteries-are-poised-to-become-cheaper-than-natural-gas-plants-in-minnesota/>
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
A new report suggests the economics of large-scale batteries are reaching an important inflection point.
Michael Reilly
July 12, 2017
MIT Technology Review
[Image] A 60-acre solar farm in Camp Ripley, a National Guard base in Minnesota.
When it comes to renewable energy, Minnesota isn't typically a headline-grabber: in 2016 it got about 18% of its energy from wind, good enough to rank in the top 10 states. But it's just 28th in terms of installed solar capacity, and its relatively small size means projects within its borders rarely garner the attention that giants like California and TX routinely get.
A new report on the future of energy in the state should turn some heads (PDF). According to the University of Minnesota's Energy Transition Lab, starting in 2019 and for the foreseeable future, the overall cost of building grid-scale storage there will be less than that of building natural-gas plants to meet future energy demand.
Minnesota currently gets about 21% of its energy from renewables. That's not bad, but current plans also call for bringing an additional 1,800 MWs of gas-fired "peaker" plants online by 2028 to meet growing demand. As the moniker suggests, these plants are meant to spin up quickly to meet daily peaks in energy demand-something renewables tend to be bad at because the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine.
Storing energy from renewables could solve that problem, but it's traditionally been thought of as too expensive compared with other forms of energy.
The new report suggests otherwise. According to the analysis, bringing lithium-ion batteries online for grid storage would be a good way to stockpile energy for when it's needed, and it would prove less costly than building and operating new natural-gas plants.
The finding comes at an interesting time. For one thing, the price of lithium-ion batteries continues to plummet, something that certainly has the auto industry's attention. And grid-scale batteries, while still relatively rare, are popping up more and more these days. The Minnesota report, then, suggests that such projects may become increasingly common-and could be a powerful way to lower emissions without sending our power bills skyrocketing in the process.
--
Electric cars to account for all new vehicle sales in Europe by 2035
The Guardian, 13 Jul 2017 11:48Z
Ten Thousand Voices on Marine Climate Change in Europe: Different
Perceptions among Demographic Groups and Nationalities
A new paper presents the results of an opinion poll of 10,000 European
citizens in 10 countries on levels of awareness and concern about the
impacts of climate change on the marine environment. Respondents were
least aware of ocean acidification and most aware of melting sea ice -
as well as pollution and overfishing, the study says. Participants
living in coastal areas claimed to be both more informed and more
concerned on climate change than those living inland, as did females
and older age groups. In terms of trust in sources of information,
academic scientists or those working for environmental NGOs are
trusted more than scientists working for govt or industry, the
study suggests. -- Frontiers in Marine Science
[Yet Another Thermometer:]
The impacts of rising temperatures on aircraft takeoff performance
Rising air temperatures may make it harder for commercial aircraft to
takeoff, requiring restrictions on how much weight they carry, a new
study suggests. As air temperatures increase at constant pressure, air
density declines, resulting in less lift generation by an aircraft
wing at a given airspeed. Modelling 5 common aircraft at 19 major
airports, the study finds that 10-30% of annual flights departing in
the hottest part of the day by the mid-to-late 21st century may
require some weight restriction. -- Climatic Change
Shell sells #1bn stake in Irish gas project
-- Joel Lewin, Financial Times
[She'll be right, mate!]
Melbourne suffers peak-hour train delays after computer fault
ABC News, 13 Jul 2017 09:28Z
Melbourne commuters are experiencing frustrating delays after Metro Trains'
entire network came to a standstill this afternoon because of a computer fault.
<https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/885399459948937216/pu/img/Ci4xuCzMNpHsLR7A.jpg>
<http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/8706898-3x2-700x467.jpg>
<https://twitter.com/cyenne40/status/885389583562571776/photo/1>
<https://twitter.com/heylauralouise/status/885398224021757952/photo/1>
All trains down. Boom gates stuck so buses are blocked.
Ubers surge 1000% Guess I'll just die then. #metrotrains
5:07 PM - 13 Jul 2017 · Melbourne, Victoria
Thanks to the uber driver quoting $300 for a $50 trip after the trains
ground to a halt in Melbourne tonight, that's the spirit!
7:13 PM - 13 Jul 2017 · Victoria, Australia
How does the train network crash in peak hour. #metrotrains #metrofail
5:09 PM - 13 Jul 2017
Sri Lankan navy rescues elephant washed out to sea
ABC News, 13 Jul 2017
The Sri Lankan navy rescued an elephant dragged away by the current about 13
kilometres off the shore of Kokilai.
Last few days bring to mind a great Schneider quote on climate: "the end of
the world and good for us are the 2 least likely outcomes"
Temperatures to soar as high pressure edges across UK for latest ...
The Weather Channel, 13 Jul 2017 08:43Z
1/ Some people claim recent global warming has been fabricated by adjusting
temperature data in new dataset versions. Those claims are wrong
This a complete fantasy as there is not enough Lithium available to make even a fraction of the batteries required -even worse is the Cobalt situation -the major source of this is from the Congo river basin where mining conditions for workes are worse than slavery -in fact we are asking that there is a complete boycott of all lithium battery production until the appalling conditon in the Congo are resolved -desmodus
[Series back to 1999 pretty much the same:]
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEmox7xXcAEijPF.jpg>
Southern Europe swelters as heatwave sparks wildfires and closes tourist sites
The Guardian, 13 Jul 2017 11:43Z
Hospital Evacuated After Power Outage, Floods Remains Closed
AP, 13 July 2017 6:55 a.m.
A suburban Chicago hospital remains closed after being evacuated due to
power outages caused by flooding.
AlleyCat
2017-07-13 23:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised
That means they aren't, yobbo, so quit lying.
--
"NOAA And NASA Corrected Historical Temperature Data And Fabricated
Temperature Data"

"NASA Made Efforts To Discredit Their Own Satellite Data"

"NASA Refused To Give Data And Information Requested By The US
House Of Representatives Science, Space And Technology Committee"

"NASA And NOAA Caught In Climate Data Manipulation"

"NASA Dramatically Altered US Temperatures After The Year 2000"

"Spectacularly Poor Climate Science At NASA"

"NASA/NOAA Mislead, Deceive and Lie About 'Hottest Year' Claim - Concede
2014 NOT "Hottest Year"

"Climate Fraud: NASA's Recent Global Warming "Corrections" Equal a +95.0°C
Per Century Trend"

https://www.google.com/#newwindow=1&q=noaa+nasa+caught

**********************************************************

UN Official Admits That Climate Change Used As A Ruse To Control The
World's Economy
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/diabolical-lie-called-climate-change-used-
un-promote-economic-agenda/
*****
"Unequal Distribution of Wealth and Power" Causes Climate Change
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/un-climate-summit-causes-of-
climate-change-unequal-distribution-of-wealth-and-power/
*****
U.N. Official Reveals Real Reason Behind Warming Scare
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-scare-tool-to-
destroy-capitalism/
*****
Another Climate Alarmist Admits Real Motive Behind Warming Scare
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/another-climate-alarmist-
admits-real-motive-behind-warming-scare/
*****
United Nations Official Admits the Purpose of the Global Warming Hoax is
to Destroy Capitalism
http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/donald-r-may/2015-02-
27/united-nations-official-admits-purpose-global-warming#.V-nGUOM1HmE
Paul Aubrin
2017-07-14 08:41:59 UTC
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Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
You cannot compare batteries and gas because batteries are not a source
of energy, but gas is.
7
2017-07-14 12:10:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
You cannot compare batteries and gas because batteries are not a source
of energy, but gas is.
What the guy is trying to say is the grid batteries are now at the tipping
point where electric power generated by wind and solar
can be stored and reused cheaper than gas extraction and burning
which is about the cheapest way to generate electricity when
done right.

This is creating a buzz in small company
startup scene because it is an opportunity for
small companies to store and sell electricity cheaper all
year round than anyone can produce and sell by any other method.
Paul Aubrin
2017-07-15 07:03:51 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by 7
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
You cannot compare batteries and gas because batteries are not a source
of energy, but gas is.
What the guy is trying to say is the grid batteries are now at the
tipping point where electric power generated by wind and solar can be
stored and reused cheaper than gas extraction and burning which is about
the cheapest way to generate electricity when done right.
This is creating a buzz in small company startup scene because it is an
opportunity for small companies to store and sell electricity cheaper
all year round than anyone can produce and sell by any other method.
There are a few problems with Mr. Robot's allegations. Batteries are not
cheap and don't scale up to grid size storage.
7
2017-07-15 21:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by 7
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
You cannot compare batteries and gas because batteries are not a source
of energy, but gas is.
What the guy is trying to say is the grid batteries are now at the
tipping point where electric power generated by wind and solar can be
stored and reused cheaper than gas extraction and burning which is about
the cheapest way to generate electricity when done right.
This is creating a buzz in small company startup scene because it is an
opportunity for small companies to store and sell electricity cheaper
all year round than anyone can produce and sell by any other method.
There are a few problems with Mr. Robot's allegations. Batteries are not
cheap and don't scale up to grid size storage.
The you should read what I said again because your claims are no
longer valid:

What the guy is trying to say is the grid batteries are now at the
tipping point where electric power generated by wind and solar can be
stored and reused cheaper than gas extraction and burning which is about
the cheapest way to generate electricity when done right.

This is creating a buzz in small company startup scene because it is an
opportunity for small companies to store and sell electricity cheaper
all year round than anyone can produce and sell by any other method.
Paul Aubrin
2017-07-16 07:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The you should read what I said again because your claims are no longer
What the guy is trying to say is the grid batteries are now at the
tipping point where electric power generated by wind and solar can be
stored and reused cheaper than gas extraction and burning which is about
the cheapest way to generate electricity when done right.
What they try to say is obviously false. Solar electricity is, almost
everywhere, still more expensive than grid electricity. Adding batteries,
to have power during the night, makes it even more expensive (+0.1$/kWh
at the very least).

One 14kWh powerwall lasting 5000 charge/discharge cycles : $5.500+ $700
supporting hardware + $1000 installation costs.
Total initial cost: $7.200
Efficiency: 90% or less.
Stored electricity at the very best over its life: 14kWh x 5000 =
70.000kWh

Storing electricity in such batteries adds 10.2cts/kWh. Production cost
of 1kWh of solar electricity (where I live) ~40cts. Once you
take into account the efficiency and cost of storage: 54.2cts/kWh. The
tipping point is still very far away, except, maybe, in some isolated
locations.

Chom Noamsky
2017-07-14 15:46:27 UTC
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Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by M***@kymhorsell.com
Grid Batteries Are Poised to Become Cheaper Than Natural-Gas Plants in Minnesota
You cannot compare batteries and gas because batteries are not a source
of energy, but gas is.
Shhhh, stop thinking!
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