Another high latitude initiated Atlantic hurricane

[N_Cook]

Up to ten years ago,barely one a decade, now more like 2 or 3 a year,
presumably with warmer Atlantic and more water vapour
Hurricane Isaac

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov
https://www.cyclocane.com/

[Paul Aubrin]

Post by N_Cook
Up to ten years ago,barely one a decade, now more like 2 or 3 a year,
presumably with warmer Atlantic and more water vapour
Hurricane Isaac

What induced you to make this guess ? Astrology ?

[R Kym Horsell]

Post by N_Cook
Up to ten years ago,barely one a decade, now more like 2 or 3 a year,
presumably with warmer Atlantic and more water vapour
Hurricane Isaac
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov
https://www.cyclocane.com/

Something has changed. The models I see cant get a good read on
these kind mid Atl systems. For a while they were saying it was
headed back to Africa.
With the amoc slowing the odd storm will be one of the
few ways heat can still get up to that part of the world. :P

[AlleyCat]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 12:44:11 +0100, N_Cook says...

Post by N_Cook
Up to ten years ago,barely one a decade, now more like 2 or 3 a year,
presumably with warmer Atlantic and more water vapour
Hurricane Isaac

10 years ago, WHO said weather was never supposed to change?

Do you think it never changed in the Holocene Climatic Optimum, where it was much warmer and lasted for 3000 years, not
this piddly 144 years we're gauging everything by now?

Please... please... PLEASE say weather and climate are never supposed to change.



please?

=====

September:

Big Cool Down For Europe

Snow In Both Hemispheres

Arctic Sea Ice Going Nowhere

September Snow In Lapland

Another Polar Blast To Slam Southern Africa

October Snow For The Aussie Alps

Unprecedented Summer Snowstorm Begins In The Alps

Italian Peaks Register Record-Breaking -24.6C (-12.3F)

Snow Clips The UK, Cold Threatens Records

Arctic Sea Ice Still Trend-less

Another New Study Finds Clouds To Be Earth's Climate Control Knob, Not CO2

Record-Breaking Snow For The Alps

Zululanders See Surprise Spring Flakes

Mount Washington Registers Early First Measurable Snow

Early-Season Snow In Austria

Scotland Shivers

Historic Lows Broken In U.S.

Greenland's Surface Gained 370 Billion Tons Of Ice Last Season, Bang On Average

Cold Records Tumble Across The East

Colder-Than-Average Augusts

India Meteorological Department Warns Of Harsh Winter To Come

Snowy Colorado

Southern Hemisphere Snow - Argentina and Chile Pounded

Early Snows Hit Kyrgyzstan

Eastern U.S. Fells Cold Records, 150 Million To See Fall-Like Temps

UK's Coolest Summer Since 2015

First Significant Snows Forecast For The Alps

150 Years Of Antarctic Ice Data Reveals Decline In Wildfires Since 1920

Arizona Sees August Snow

Europe Forecast Stark Temperature Drop

Thousands Without Power In Tasmania As Cold And Snow Intensify

Foot Of Snow Closes Going-To-The-Sun Road

[JTEM]

Post by AlleyCat
10 years ago, WHO said weather was never supposed to change?
Do you think it never changed in the Holocene Climatic Optimum, where it was much warmer and lasted for 3000 years, not
this piddly 144 years we're gauging everything by now?
Please... please... PLEASE say weather and climate are never supposed to change.

It's far worse than that.

The "Ice Age" animals melting out of the so called permafrost?

It means that conditions today are approaching what they were
during to so called ice age. That's the only way "Ice Age"
animals could get into what we call "Permafrost."

Check this out:

https://www.businesstoday.in/visualstories/news/turning-green-nasa-discovers-transformation-of-sahara-desert-amid-heavy-rainfall-174404-27-09-2024

If the Sahara is greening, as they claim, it's getting colder.

Remember: The Sahara was a lot greener prior to climate optimum.
But as the earth warmed up, as the climate got further & further
away from it's "Ice Age" norms the Sahara desert began to form.

And NASA is describing those pre climate optimum conditions...

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by AlleyCat
10 years ago, WHO said weather was never supposed to change?
Do you think it never changed in the Holocene Climatic Optimum, where
it was much warmer and lasted for 3000 years, not
this piddly 144 years we're gauging everything by now?
Please... please... PLEASE say weather and climate are never supposed to change.

It's far worse than that.
The "Ice Age" animals melting out of the so called permafrost?
It means that conditions today are approaching what they were
during to so called ice age. That's the only way "Ice Age"
animals could get into what we call "Permafrost."
https://www.businesstoday.in/visualstories/news/turning-green-nasa-
discovers-transformation-of-sahara-desert-amid-heavy-
rainfall-174404-27-09-2024
If the Sahara is greening, as they claim, it's getting colder.

No, actually. If the Sahara is greening it means it is getting WETTER.

Post by JTEM
Remember:  The Sahara was a lot greener prior to climate optimum.
But as the earth warmed up, as the climate got further & further
away from it's "Ice Age" norms the Sahara desert began to form.
And NASA is describing those pre climate optimum conditions...

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
No, actually. If the Sahara is greening it means it is getting WETTER.

We're not having a debate here.

The Sahara desert formed during climate optimum, only AFTER
the climate put some distance from the cold of the "Ice Age."

The Sahara was green when the earth was colder.

The so called "Permafrost" wasn't there during "The ice age."

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
No, actually. If the Sahara is greening it means it is getting WETTER.

We're not having a debate here.
The Sahara desert formed during climate optimum, only AFTER
the climate put some distance from the cold of the "Ice Age."
The Sahara was green when the earth was colder.
The so called "Permafrost" wasn't there during "The ice age."

While all you say MAY be true, it isn't necessarily so that if (accepted
arguendo) the Sahara is greening NOW, it is only because it's getting
cooler.

Hot temperatures with more MOISTURE would result in the Sahara getting
greener.

[R Kym Horsell]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
No, actually. If the Sahara is greening it means it is getting WETTER.

We're not having a debate here.
The Sahara desert formed during climate optimum, only AFTER
the climate put some distance from the cold of the "Ice Age."
The Sahara was green when the earth was colder.
The so called "Permafrost" wasn't there during "The ice age."

While all you say MAY be true, it isn't necessarily so that if (accepted
arguendo) the Sahara is greening NOW, it is only because it's getting
cooler.
Hot temperatures with more MOISTURE would result in the Sahara getting
greener.

The Sahara is getting hotter. Not much doubt. Pretty much everywhere on
the equator is getting warmer around 1/2 the global rate.

This is what even the models created by Exxon 50y ago confirmed.

According to the plots of the few met stations out there, the desert is
not so much getting wetter but the rain events -- when they happen --
produce a few more mm than they used to. For each 1C warmer air holds
around 17% more water vapor.

The trends for increasing temps are robust.
But the trendlines for the precip annual total and monthly averages
still only show as "weak" at the 80% confidence level. In most
science we'd like the confidence of a trend to at least be 90% or higher.

--
'Round about the dawn of time
The dreaming all began
A proud people came
They were lookin' for their promised land
Runnin' from the heart of darkness
Searching for the heart of light
-- "Solid Rock", Goanna Band, 1982

[JTEM]

Post by R Kym Horsell
The Sahara is getting hotter.

Which is why NASA is claiming that it's shrinking?

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The Sahara is getting hotter.

Which is why NASA is claiming that it's shrinking?

Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

[R Kym Horsell]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The Sahara is getting hotter.

Which is why NASA is claiming that it's shrinking?

Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

The guy is like a sieve. We're talked at length on AGW about
aridity, but doofus cant imagine a desert that isnt hot.
The idea the size of a desert is related to "how hot" it is,
is a recent hallucination.

[JTEM]

Post by R Kym Horsell
The guy is like

So if Greenland isn't green in a year then you're wrong?

Five years?

You want to pretend you're not some dumb Kapo thinking he's
going to avoid the ovens, right? So tell us when we're going
to see major earth changes. Not WEATHER, extreme or otherwise,
but genuine earth changes...

Remember how Glacier National Park was going to be glacier
free BY THE YEAR 2020?

I guess that would qualify as an earth change, if it didn't
turn out to be a failed prediction that falsified the
Globull Warbling narrative.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The guy is like

So if Greenland isn't green in a year then you're wrong?

How is that relevant?

Post by JTEM
Five years?
You want to pretend you're not some dumb Kapo thinking he's
going to avoid the ovens, right? So tell us when we're going
to see major earth changes. Not WEATHER, extreme or otherwise,
but genuine earth changes...
Remember how Glacier National Park was going to be glacier
free BY THE YEAR 2020?

Who said that?

Post by JTEM
I guess that would qualify as an earth change, if it didn't
turn out to be a failed prediction that falsified the
Globull Warbling narrative.

So if something doesn't happen on the precise timetable of a first
prediction...

..that means it can't be happening?

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
How is that relevant?

Your cowardice defines you.


Let's talk now about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive aquatic lie you repeatedly tendered on Trump:


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve seen = check!

[JTEM]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The guy is like

So if Greenland isn't green in a year then you're wrong?

How is that relevant?

You want to know how the accuracy of predictions is relevant?

Idiot.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The guy is like

So if Greenland isn't green in a year then you're wrong?

How is that relevant?

You want to know how the accuracy of predictions is relevant?

I want to know how you can rebut the fact that a region doesn't have to
get cooler to get more vegetation...

...because it can just get more RAIN...

...with a claim that there was a prediction about Greenland wasn't
accurate (assuming for the sake of argument) that such a prediction
actually exists.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
I want to know how you can rebut the fact that a region doesn't have to
get cooler to get more vegetation...

You're stating what you want to pretend is a fact, apparently
unaware that it's baseless.

Know what isn't baseless? The fact that the Sahara Desert was
created by the earth warming. That, it was significantly greener
when the planet was colder.

Cooler = Green

Warmer = desert

This is fact. It's our planet's history, our climate history.

Nothing you are "Arguing" is based on any fact.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
I want to know how you can rebut the fact that a region doesn't have
to get cooler to get more vegetation...

You're stating what you want to pretend is a fact, apparently
unaware that it's baseless.
Know what isn't baseless? The fact that the Sahara Desert was
created by the earth warming. That, it was significantly greener
when the planet was colder.
Cooler = Green
Warmer = desert
This is fact. It's our planet's history, our climate history.

No. That is absolutely NOT fact.

"desert" has a scientific definition that relates to how much
precipitation they get.

It literally has nothing to do with the temperature.

The largest desert in the world is the Antarctic Desert with an area of
nearly 5.5 million square miles. It's not warm.

The second largest desert is...

...the Arctic Desert with an area of about 5.4 million square miles.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
No. That is absolutely NOT fact.
"desert" has a scientific definition that

We weren't talking about "Desert" we are speaking of THE Saharan
desert. A very specific region and not some generic "Desert."

The Sahara was a great deal more green, back when the earth was
cooler.

Cooler = Green

Warmer = Desert

The Sahara. Doesn't matter how much of a coward you are, trying
desperately to distract, this remains true. The Sahara desert
formed during/after Climate Optimum. It was greener prior to
that, when it was colder.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
No. That is absolutely NOT fact.
"desert" has a scientific definition that

We weren't talking about "Desert" we are speaking of THE Saharan
desert. A very specific region and not some generic "Desert."
The Sahara was a great deal more green, back when the earth was
cooler.
Cooler = Green
Warmer = Desert
The Sahara. Doesn't matter how much of a coward you are, trying
desperately to distract, this remains true. The Sahara desert
formed during/after Climate Optimum. It was greener prior to
that, when it was colder.

Learn this statement:

"Correlation is NOT causation.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM
The Sahara was a great deal more green, back when the earth was
cooler.
Cooler = Green
Warmer = Desert
The Sahara. Doesn't matter how much of a coward you are, trying
desperately to distract, this remains true. The Sahara desert
formed during/after Climate Optimum. It was greener prior to
that, when it was colder.

"Correlation is NOT causation.

Causation *Always* correlates with the observation.

Your statement only makes sense, for lack of a better word, if you
are operating under the assumption that correlation excludes
causation. Which is phenomenally stupid, as per your usual.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM
The Sahara was a great deal more green, back when the earth was
cooler.
Cooler = Green
Warmer = Desert
The Sahara. Doesn't matter how much of a coward you are, trying
desperately to distract, this remains true. The Sahara desert
formed during/after Climate Optimum. It was greener prior to
that, when it was colder.

"Correlation is NOT causation.

Causation *Always* correlates with the observation.

But you're arguing the reverse.

Post by JTEM
Your statement only makes sense, for lack of a better word, if you
are operating under the assumption that correlation excludes
causation. Which is phenomenally stupid, as per your usual.

No. I never said it excludes it.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
"Correlation is NOT causation.

Causation *Always* correlates with the observation.

But you're arguing the reverse.

No, you fucking retard, YOU just did, and YOU quoted YOU
"arguing" that!

Damn. You are crazy and not just stupid...

[Paul Aubrin]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
"Correlation is NOT causation.

Causation *Always* correlates with the observation.

But you're arguing the reverse.

Certainly not. He is saying that your contraposed proposition implies
that without correlation there is no causation.

Now observe that since the start of CO2 measurements in the atmosphere,
CO2 variations always follow temperature variations. The correlation is
quite good (R²~0.5). CO2 variations follow temperature variations after
6 or 7 months. According to what you see, would you say that temperature
variations may be a cause of CO2 variations, or just the opposite.

https://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/derivative/fourier/low-pass:50/inverse-fourier/from:1958/normalise/plot/esrl-co2/derivative/fourier/low-pass:50/inverse-fourier/from:1958/detrend:0.15/normalise

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by R Kym Horsell

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The Sahara is getting hotter.

Which is why NASA is claiming that it's shrinking?

Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

The guy is like a sieve. We're talked at length on AGW about
aridity, but doofus cant imagine a desert that isnt hot.
The idea the size of a desert is related to "how hot" it is,
is a recent hallucination.

More facts like the one below, easy to find:

- The Siberian desert, also known as the Great Arctic Desert, is the world's
largest desert, covering an area of 13.1 million square kilometers. Here
are some interesting facts about this unique region:

Despite being called a "desert," the Siberian desert is not actually very
dry. It receives around 100-200mm of precipitation per year, mostly in the
form of snow.

- Yes, Antarctica is a desert:

Precipitation

Antarctica receives very little rain or snow, with an average of about 15
centimeters (6 inches) of precipitation per year across the entire
continent. The interior of Antarctica is drier, receiving less than 50
millimeters (2 inches) per year, while coastal regions receive more than
200 millimeters (8 inches).

- Atacama Desert, cool, arid region in northern Chile, 600 to 700 miles
(1,000 to 1,100 km) long from north to south. Its limits are not exactly
determined, but it lies mainly between the south bend of the Loa River and
the mountains separating the Salado-Copiapó drainage basins.

Post by R Kym Horsell
--
The Gobi Desert, which is located in northwestern China and southern
Mongolia, is one of the coldest deserts in the world, with average
temperatures ranging from -40 °C (-40 °F) in January to over 45 °C
(113 °F) in July. The Gobi Desert occurs in the rain shadow of the
Himalayas, so it is extremely dry.
--britannica

[R Kym Horsell]

Post by R Kym Horsell

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by R Kym Horsell
The Sahara is getting hotter.

Which is why NASA is claiming that it's shrinking?

Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

The guy is like a sieve. We're talked at length on AGW about
aridity, but doofus cant imagine a desert that isnt hot.
The idea the size of a desert is related to "how hot" it is,
is a recent hallucination.

...

Kinda the point methink.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

Speaking of which:

We do not exist in a vacuum. We have a climate history. The
Sahara wasn't always this big desert. It used to be a lot
greener. And then the earth warmed up and the desert formed.
And presently that desert is reversing itself. Looking at
the climate history of the planet earth, smaller means a
colder planet and larger means a warmer planet. And it's
getting smaller, according to NASA.

It's not the only such indicator.

The animals melting out of the Siberian "Permafrost," for
example. It wasn't frost, not during to "Ice age." If it
were no animals would have been in it! No, it froze over
only LATER, only AFTER those "ice age" animals were buried.
So conditions are the way they were during the "Ice age."

Permafrost = warmer. No permafrost = colder.

This is due to how the earth circulates the energy from
the sun. Most of it falls along the equator and then from
there it's circulated around the globe. Antarctica is as
cold as it is because it's walled off by the circumpolar
current, keeping the warm air from the equator from ever
reaching it. The continent is actually much colder than
can be accounted for by it's position as the south pole.

The permafrost issue is similar. It's about HOW the planet
circulates the energy from the sun. In fact, this is exactly
why we are inside the Quaternary Period, our present ice age.
The formation of the Isthmus of Panama changed the way the
planet circulates energy, causing some areas to cool down
considerably.

Still, it took hundreds of thousands of years for the deep
ocean temperatures to plunge as low as they are now...

And yet, idiots think it all comes down to CO2.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

We do not exist in a vacuum. We have a climate history. The
Sahara wasn't always this big desert. It used to be a lot
greener. And then the earth warmed up and the desert formed.
And presently that desert is reversing itself. Looking at
the climate history of the planet earth, smaller means a
colder planet and larger means a warmer planet. And it's
getting smaller, according to NASA.

No.

The Sahara getting smaller does NOT mean a colder planet.

Post by JTEM
It's not the only such indicator.
The animals melting out of the Siberian "Permafrost," for
example. It wasn't frost, not during to "Ice age." If it
were no animals would have been in it! No, it froze over
only LATER, only AFTER those "ice age" animals were buried.
So conditions are the way they were during the "Ice age."

You have that completely wrong.

Post by JTEM
Permafrost = warmer. No permafrost = colder.

Also bullshit.

Post by JTEM
This is due to how the earth circulates the energy from
the sun. Most of it falls along the equator and then from
there it's circulated around the globe. Antarctica is as
cold as it is because it's walled off by the circumpolar
current, keeping the warm air from the equator from ever
reaching it. The continent is actually much colder than
can be accounted for by it's position as the south pole.

No. Energy from the sun falls in a way that is distributed based on the
angle of incidence the sun's light makes with the surface.

Post by JTEM
The permafrost issue is similar. It's about HOW the planet
circulates the energy from the sun. In fact, this is exactly
why we are inside the Quaternary Period, our present ice age.
The formation of the Isthmus of Panama changed the way the
planet circulates energy, causing some areas to cool down
considerably.
Still, it took hundreds of thousands of years for the deep
ocean temperatures to plunge as low as they are now...
And yet, idiots think it all comes down to CO2.

You sound like a flat-earther.

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
You have that completely wrong.

Like you did with this:



Let's talk now about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive aquatic lie you repeatedly tendered on Trump:


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve seen = check!

[JTEM]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

We do not exist in a vacuum. We have a climate history. The
Sahara wasn't always this big desert. It used to be a lot
greener. And then the earth warmed up and the desert formed.
And presently that desert is reversing itself. Looking at
the climate history of the planet earth, smaller means a
colder planet and larger means a warmer planet. And it's
getting smaller, according to NASA.

No.
The Sahara getting smaller does NOT mean a colder planet.

I'm basing my statements on the actual climate record, the
history of the planet earth. You, on the other hand, are
a fucking idiot spewing idiocy.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

We do not exist in a vacuum. We have a climate history. The
Sahara wasn't always this big desert. It used to be a lot
greener. And then the earth warmed up and the desert formed.
And presently that desert is reversing itself. Looking at
the climate history of the planet earth, smaller means a
colder planet and larger means a warmer planet. And it's
getting smaller, according to NASA.

No.
The Sahara getting smaller does NOT mean a colder planet.

I'm basing my statements on the actual climate record, the
history of the planet earth. You, on the other hand, are
a fucking idiot spewing idiocy.

Except there can be multiple REASONS for a change, doofus.

And you're making claims you haven't even bothered to back up.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
Except there can be multiple REASONS for a change, doofus.

Cites!

Prove it. Show us these multiple REASONS as they actually
occurred in the Sahara. You're pretending to not be insane,
remember? So back up your claims.

You're proving that you Klimate Kooks are so stupid that
you're not even aware when you're spewing baseless claims.
You don't know the difference between a statement based
on fact and one based on mythology.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Except there can be multiple REASONS for a change, doofus.

Cites!

After you.

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM
I'm basing my statements on the actual climate record, the
history of the planet earth. You, on the other hand, are
a fucking idiot spewing idiocy.

So let's see your cites.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
After you.

You want a "Cite" to when the Sahara desert formed as we know it,
you couldn't find any, not in all your milliseconds of searching,
and this makes you an "Educated" climate activist?

Dude, I honestly love this! You keep testifying to the fact of
your ignorance on the topic, and I don't want you to stop. I've
been laughing at you this whole time and I like laughing at you!

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
After you.

You want a "Cite" to when the Sahara desert formed as we know it,
you couldn't find any, not in all your milliseconds of searching,
and this makes you an "Educated" climate activist?

It's not my job to find information to support your claims, snowflake.

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
It's not my job to find information

Keep in mind, the above was typed by a mentally retarded
jackass who believes he is well informed & science based.

...all the way avoiding any effort in collecting
formation.

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
It's not my job to find information

Keep in mind, the above was typed by a mentally retarded
jackass who believes he is well informed & science based.
    ...all the way avoiding any effort in collecting
formation.

Keep in mind the above was written by someone who omitted this:

'to support your claims, snowflake. '

...from my sentence to try and make himself look sensible.

[Paul Aubrin]

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Except there can be multiple REASONS for a change, doofus.

Cites!

After you.

10.000 to 5.000 ago, is pre-industrial, isn't it ?

https://lucaonadventure.com/matmata-guelta-the-last-crocodiles-in-the-sahara-desert/
Short cite :
The Sahara is probably the area that went through the most impressive
changes, as imagining it as anything other than the harsh and brutal,
but still magnificent, place it is today is hard to do.

However, studies show that, from about 10.000 to 5000 years ago, the
Sahara wasn’t a desert at all, but rather a green, lush and humid
territory, full of rivers and lakes, inhabited by most animals that we
know populate Central Africa today, from giraffes and elephants to
hippopotamus and…crocodiles!

[Governor Swill]

Post by Paul Aubrin

Post by Alan

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
Except there can be multiple REASONS for a change, doofus.

Cites!

After you.

10.000 to 5.000 ago, is pre-industrial, isn't it ?
https://lucaonadventure.com/matmata-guelta-the-last-crocodiles-in-the-sahara-desert/
The Sahara is probably the area that went through the most impressive
changes, as imagining it as anything other than the harsh and brutal,
but still magnificent, place it is today is hard to do.
However, studies show that, from about 10.000 to 5000 years ago, the
Sahara wasn’t a desert at all, but rather a green, lush and humid
territory, full of rivers and lakes, inhabited by most animals that we
know populate Central Africa today, from giraffes and elephants to
hippopotamus and…crocodiles!

It was also home to grazers and the populations were livestock owners as well al
farmers. This helps explain the explosive wealth of Egypt. As the Sahara
drying expanded, these herdsmen and farmers were driven to concentrate in the
Nile valley bringing with them well developed skills and existing portable
wealth.
--
Four more reasons to not vote for Trump in 33 days.


26) Trump broke the law by trying to withhold nearly
$400 million of U.S. aid for Ukraine in an effort to
extort a personal political favor from Ukraine's President Zelensky.
Trump wanted Zelensky to interfere in the 2020 election by announcing
an investigation into the Bidens. Delaying this aid to Ukraine
weakened Ukraine and strengthened Russia.

27) Trump personally attacked and ruined the careers of everyone
who stood in the way of his illegal Ukraine scheme, including
Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch and Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman.

28) To cover up the scheme, Trump ordered the White House and
State Department to defy congressional subpoenas.

29) For these reasons, on December 18th, 2019, Trump
became the third U.S. president to be impeached.
He was charged with abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
Because a desert isn't defined by TEMPERATURE, doofus.

Let's talk about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive lie you tendered on Trump:





https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve = check!

[JTEM]

Post by Alan
While all you say MAY be true

You're admitting to be ignorant on the subject of the
earth's climate. So shut the fuck up already.

Jeeze, how bad of a narcissist are you, spewing your
ignorance like this, convinced it makes you an expert?

[Alan]

Post by JTEM

Post by Alan
While all you say MAY be true

You're admitting to be ignorant on the subject of the
earth's climate. So shut the fuck up already.
Jeeze, how bad of a narcissist are you, spewing your
ignorance like this, convinced it makes you an expert?

You're admitting your ignorance of the meaning of "arguendo".

And your ignorance of English sentence construction is on full display
as well.

"You're admitting TO BE ignorant" is clumsy at best.

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
And your ignorance of English sentence construction is on full display
as well.

And your cowardice, always:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Let's talk now about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive aquatic lie you tendered on Trump:





https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve seen = check!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
Hot temperatures with more MOISTURE would result in the Sahara getting
greener.

Let's talk about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive lie you tendered on Trump:





https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve = check!

[k***@gmail.com]

For First Time In 50 Years, Rare Rain Floods Sahara Desert
Outlook India, 12 Oct 2024 10:11Z
The Sahara Desert, typically known for its extreme aridity, has experienced
shocking floods for the first time in 50 years, transforming its landscape
and...

Drone footage shows rare flooding in the Sahara desert
The Guardian, 11 Oct 2024


--
[Humans == 40 Gt CO2/yr; volcanoes <0.1 Gt/yr].
Global carbon dioxide emission to the atmosphere by volcanoes
Volcanic CO2 presently represents only 0.22% of anthropogenic emissions but
may have contributed to significant "greenhouse" effects at times in Earth
history.
-- Science Direct

[Operating Insolvent:]
In 2022, fossil fuel subsidies in the United States totaled $757 bn,
according to the International Monetary Fund.
-- EESI.org, 30 Jan 2024
[Around $6900 per US household per year].

During this period, the US made an annual average revenue of 136.9
bn USD through the production and marketing of fossil fuel
products.
-- statista.com, 29 Apr 2024

More Than 100 Assisted-Living Residents Rescued from '4 to 5 Feet' of Flood
Water Following Hurricane Milton
PEOPLE, 12 Oct 2024 20:26Z

Extreme rainfall poses health risks
ScienceDaily, 10 Oct 2024
Extremely heavy rainfall, which occurs approximately every 5 years,
significantly increases the risk of death, particularly among individuals
with cardiovascular and respiratory diseases. The impacts, however, vary
greatly by region and depend on local climate and environmental conditions.

Rising disaster costs leave US confronting fiscal risks of climate change
WaPo, 12 Oct 2024 17:11Z
As storms, droughts, wildfires and other extreme weather events strike with
greater frequency and intensity, repairing and rebuilding has grown more
costly,...

As parts of Florida went dark from Helene and Milton, the lights stayed on
in this net-zero, storm-proof community
CNN, 12 Oct 2024 18:07Z
While the newly developed storm-proof homes have endured a few storms since
people moved in last year, Hurricanes Helene and ...

A Supreme Court case in Hawaii could raise gas costs for us all
New York Post, 12 Oct 2024 19:06Z
The chain of reasoning is that Sunoco et al have marketed and sold products
that, when combusted, emit carbon dioxide and other gasses, exacerbating the
greenhouse effect, warming the planet, melting ...

Can coal survive the solar spread? Major Australian power plant notches
'extraordinary' first
ABC News, 12 Oct 2024 19:10Z
A remarkable first for coal power in Australia gave the beleaguered
industry hope recently. But news this week might have snuffed it
out again.

Florida man kayaks in flooded living room during Hurricane Helene
FOX Weather, 11 Oct 2024 20:58Z
Tampa resident Matthew Landon Heller spoke to FOX Weather about how
Hurricane Helene produced enough storm surge to flood his living room that
he was able...

Australia facing one of the hottest summers on record, according to
BOM prediction
ABC News, 11 Oct 2024 19:56Z
Australia is facing one of the hottest summers on record according to the
Bureau of Meteorology's weather modelling which ...

Drought is parching the world's largest man-made lake, stripping Zambia of
its electricity
clickondetroit.com, 12 Oct 2024 02:53Z
Zambia's worst electricity blackouts in memory have been caused by a severe
drought in the region that has left the critical ...

How Climate Change Is Making Hurricanes More Powerful and Frequent
CNN-News18, 12 Oct 2024 04:31Z
For instance, human-induced climate change increased Hurricane Helene's
rainfall by around 10% and wind speed by approximately 11%, according to
World Weather Attribution scientists in the latest ...

[Crash!]
Boeing to lay off 17,000 employees ahead of expected record losses
ABC News, 11 Oct 2024 23:47Z
The plane-maker has been plagued by safety concerns about its
aircraft, while struggling to strike a deal with about 33,000
factory workers in the US.

Snakes no longer on the plains: Wildlife handlers inundated with sightings in
the suburbs
ABC News, 12 Oct 2024 03:57Z
Wildlife rescuers say urban sprawl and an unsettled spring are
behind a sharp increase in call-outs in Melbourne at the start of
snake breeding season.

TikTok slashes 100s of jobs in shift to AI-assisted content moderation
ABC News, 12 Oct 2024 04:24Z
A significant number of employees in Malaysia are expected to be
affected by the job cuts.

[Whew! Thank God It's Winter!!]
Arizona weather forecast: Record-breaking temps expected through the week end
FOX 10 Phoenix, 11 Oct 2024 14:34Z
The high in Phoenix on Oct. 11 is expected to be around 106°F, which would
break the previous record of 102°F set in 1991.

[De-Trois-Leaning]

Post by Alan
No, actually. If the Sahara is greening it means it is getting WETTER.

Let's talk about your craven cowardly act of running away from this
massive aquatic lie you tendered on Trump:





https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/22/delta-smelt-fish-trump-california-aoe

"Last fall, Trump signed a memorandum directing federal agencies to
review and roll back environmental standards slowing down the flow of
water to farms in the Central Valley. In February this year, the
president nominated David Bernhardt to serve as his interior secretary.

...turning down the pumps isn’t quite as easy as shutting off a faucet.
The multi-story state and federal pumping plants operate in tandem and
are powerful enough to make rivers flow backward.

If the delta smelt go, California may be able to pump some more."

https://envirobites.org/2019/06/24/farmers-vs-fish-the-story-of-delta-smelt/

"To move water around, over 1,400 dams and miles of aqueducts have been
constructed. A tidal wetland-turned-agricultural land, the Sacramento –
San Joaquin Delta is the center of California’s water distribution
system. About half of California’s developed water moves through the
delta via two pumping plants: Central Valley Project (CVP) and the State
Water Project."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"The Central Valley Project (CVP) is a federal power and water
management project in the U.S. state of California under the supervision
of the United States Bureau of Reclamation (USBR). It was devised in
1933 in order to provide irrigation and municipal water to much of
California's Central Valley—by regulating and storing water in
reservoirs in the northern half of the state (once considered water-rich
but suffering water-scarce conditions more than half the year in most
years), and transporting it to the water-poor San Joaquin Valley and its
surroundings by means of a series of canals, aqueducts and pump plants,
some shared with the California State Water Project (SWP). Many CVP
water users are represented by the Central Valley Project Water Association.


Two large reservoirs, Shasta Lake and Trinity Lake, are formed by a pair
of dams in the mountains north of the Sacramento Valley. Water from
Shasta Lake flows into the Sacramento River which flows to the
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and water from Trinity Lake flows into the
Trinity River which leads to the Pacific Ocean. Both lakes release water
at controlled rates. There, before it can flow on to San Francisco Bay
and the Pacific Ocean, some of the water is intercepted by a diversion
channel and transported to the Delta-Mendota Canal, which conveys water
southwards through the San Joaquin Valley, supplying water to San Luis
Reservoir (a SWP-shared facility) and the San Joaquin River at Mendota
Pool in the process, eventually reaching canals that irrigates farms in
the valley. Friant Dam crosses the San Joaquin River upstream of Mendota
Pool, diverting its water southwards into canals that travel into the
Tulare Lake area of the San Joaquin Valley, as far south as the Kern
River. Finally, New Melones Lake, a separate facility, stores water flow
of a San Joaquin River tributary for use during dry periods. Other
smaller, independent facilities exist to provide water to local
irrigation districts"

https://water.ca.gov/programs/state-water-project

https://water.ca.gov/Programs/State-Water-Project/Operations-and-Maintenance


Big old shutoff valve = check!