Discussion:
Warming To Increase Rapidly - BUT It's Happened Before
(too old to reply)
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-14 02:23:34 UTC
Permalink
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-accelerates-climate-crisis/

. . .

OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending. More
ice IS going to melt, more frozen swamps ARE going
to thaw. The more it goes the faster it goes. Humans
can't really stop/reverse/delay this very much, it's
too big a thing. MAJOR geo-engineering - like releasing
large quantities of customized dusts into the
stratosphere - could set things back a little while
but I don't think it's economically sustainable. I've
even heard a plan to launch 'dust' ten million miles
sunward in (temporarily) sync orbit with the earth
to form like a 1% 'shield'.

Sorry, but SUVs aren't your major problem, nor are
the power plants and such. We're looking at very
long term cyclic trends.

Eventually there will be a fairly large comet hit
or prodigious volcanic blast or orbital tilt that
will tip us back into a cold cycle. Happened before,
will happen again.

MEANWHILE ... expect most of the earth to become
fairly 'tropical'. This has happened before too.
Palm trees in Greenland, that kind of thing. Both
humans and (many) flora and fauna survived (with
adaptations) the last times this happened - but
it's gonna be extra sweaty in London and just
skip DisneyWorld in August. Forget Miami Beach,
won't be there anymore - "Florida" will start
kinda from Palm Beach north.
--
033-33
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-14 06:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-
accelerates-climate-crisis/
"Scientists have discovered that the Arctic’s vast permafrost areas are
now releasing more greenhouse gases than they absorb, contributing to
global warming.
Over a two-decade study, regions like forests absorbed carbon dioxide,
which was offset by emissions from lakes, rivers, and wildfires.
Additionally, methane, a potent short-lived gas, was significantly
emitted from wetlands."

But, this phenomenon already occurred during each previous inter-glacial
period.
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
. . .
  OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending.
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-14 06:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-
accelerates-climate-crisis/
"Scientists have discovered that the Arctic’s vast permafrost areas are
now releasing more greenhouse gases than they absorb, contributing to
global warming.
Over a two-decade study, regions like forests absorbed carbon dioxide,
which was offset by emissions from lakes, rivers, and wildfires.
Additionally, methane, a potent short-lived gas, was significantly
emitted from wetlands."
But, this phenomenon already occurred during each previous inter-glacial
period.
This 'tipping' phenom seems to have happened many times.
Either towards sudden warmth, or cold, there's a certain
point where the climate just shifts rapidly - often due
to biological interactions it seems. All that sequestered
methane seems a big player.

"Climate" was stable during the dino age, but SINCE
then .......

ANYway, the extreme, uninformed, greenies love to
politicize the issue - mostly with the goal of
destroying 'western civ'. But, it's not nearly
so clear or simple.
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
. . .
   OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending.
Siri Cruise
2024-11-14 08:12:25 UTC
Permalink
  "Climate" was stable during the dino age, but SINCE
  then .......
  ANYway, the extreme, uninformed, greenies love to
  politicize the issue - mostly with the goal of
  destroying 'western civ'. But, it's not nearly
  so clear or simple.
There was a 'western civ' in the 'dino civ'?

When it happenned before, what did it do to 'western civ'?
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-14 12:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
All that sequestered
  methane seems a big player.
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows.
In the real world greenhouse gases follow temperatures :

CO2 variations (green line) clearly follow temperature variations (red
lines) even those variations caused by volcanism.

https://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3sh/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/from:1958/normalise/plot/esrl-co2/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/scale:20/detrend:3/from:1958/normalise
Chris Ahlstrom
2024-11-14 12:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
All that sequestered
  methane seems a big player.
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows.
CO2 variations (green line) clearly follow temperature variations (red
lines) even those variations caused by volcanism.
https://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3sh/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/from:1958/normalise/plot/esrl-co2/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/scale:20/detrend:3/from:1958/normalise
Beware sharp tools

However, with sharp tools comes great responsibility... Please read the
notes on things to beware of - and in particular on the problems with
short, cherry-picked trends. Remember that the signals we are dealing with
are very, very noisy, and it's easy to get misled - or worse still, to
mislead others.
--
<muggles> i'm trying to convince some netcom admins i know to convert
to Debian from RH, netgod, but they are DAMN stubborn
<muggles> why RH users so damned hard headed?
<Espy> it's the hat
Citizen Winston Smith
2024-11-14 19:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Beware sharp tools
STFU, Rudence!


You are a rampant public death threat maker and Suckramento dwarf named
Jonathan D Ball.

FOAD, you traitor to America~!

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/D.Ray/Henry Bodkin/Al Feldhauser
Susan Cohen and a dozen other forged socks of living and dead posters wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
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Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400


Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Post by Chris Ahlstrom
No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
is an important step to getting there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.


https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

The United States Secret Service is conducting the investigation in this
case. The United States Attorney’s Office, District of Arizona, is
handling the prosecution.


Those can be reported here:

https://tips.fbi.gov/home

https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-crime-or-submit-complaint

https://www.secretservice.gov/contact

https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something/reporting/california


Fellow citizens, won't you join in ending Rudey's terrorism here?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-15 07:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Post by Paul Aubrin
CO2 variations (green line) clearly follow temperature variations (red
lines) even those variations caused by volcanism.
https://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3sh/derivative/mean:12/
mean:14/from:1958/normalise/plot/esrl-co2/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/
scale:20/detrend:3/from:1958/normalise
Beware sharp tools
No tool there, just public data observed from some interesting angle :
1-3 years variations.
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-14 23:19:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
All that sequestered
   methane seems a big player.
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows.
CO2 variations (green line) clearly follow temperature variations (red
lines) even those variations caused by volcanism.
https://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3sh/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/from:1958/normalise/plot/esrl-co2/derivative/mean:12/mean:14/scale:20/detrend:3/from:1958/normalise
Methane is trickier than CO2. It will be released more
slowly, temperature plays less of a role other than
the diff between frozen muck -vs- slush. Methane is
also chemically reactive and some organisms eat it.
In short, it's not forever - albeit a complication.

On the flip, there is a LOT of potential to create
methane for a LONG time. Might seem like "forever"
to us.

I suppose we COULD engineer an aggressive methanogen
and dust the entire arctic with the bug ...
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-15 07:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
Methane is trickier than CO2. It will be released more
  slowly,
Methane doesn't stay for long in the atmosphere.
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-15 07:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
Methane is trickier than CO2. It will be released more
   slowly,
Methane doesn't stay for long in the atmosphere.
As I said ...

However the SOURCES can PRODUCE it constantly
for a very long time.

It's a CONCERN. Maybe not THE greatest, but up
there in the list.

A very aggressive GM methanogen bacteria COULD
be engineered - then dusted across the arctic.

Build it RIGHT though .......
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-17 13:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Methane doesn't stay for long in the atmosphere.
  As I said ...
  However the SOURCES can PRODUCE it constantly
  for a very long time.
But methane does not stay for long in the atmosphere...
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-17 23:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by Paul Aubrin
Methane doesn't stay for long in the atmosphere.
   As I said ...
   However the SOURCES can PRODUCE it constantly
   for a very long time.
But methane does not stay for long in the atmosphere...
A given molecule ? No.

However if there's a constant 'leak' then a fair
amount of the gas CAN be in the atmosphere for
a long long time. The arctic frozen, now less-
frozen, swamps have rather high methane production
capability.

I don't think it's the vast emergency some like
to claim - they always make it sound like every
acre is gonna blast out a giant plume of methane
all at once - but it may still be a problem amount.

Ergo, response plans ought to be devised. For that
LARGE an area I think only 'bacteriological warfare'
will work - dust down bacteria that either attack
those which produce the methane or with bacteria
that are extra-greedy about eating it up.
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-18 07:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
But methane does not stay for long in the atmosphere...
  A given molecule ? No.
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-18 07:24:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by Paul Aubrin
But methane does not stay for long in the atmosphere...
   A given molecule ? No.
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
Now there are a lot MORE of them .....

Living in denial ???
Siri Cruise
2024-11-18 12:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by Paul Aubrin
But methane does not stay for long in the atmosphere...
   A given molecule ? No.
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
  Now there are a lot MORE of them .....
  Living in denial ???
It would be more compelling if you showed methane accumulation has
not changed.

Bacterial methane comes from digesting cellulose and other plant
compounds. The methane oxidises and that carbon dioxide is inhaled
by plants to synthesise cellulose and other plant compounds.

The existence of a biological carbon cycle is well known. Nitrogen
oxides and sulphur oxides are part of the nitrogen and sulphur cycles.

Burning fossil fuels unbalances these cycles in ways not seen for
hundreds of millions of years. Mammals and birds are mostly
evolved after that. These imbalances have killed almost life in
their times; are we guaranteed to survive?
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Paul Aubrin
2024-11-18 21:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
  Now there are a lot MORE of them ...
What you suppose about the total number of bacteria is probably false.
John Smyth
2024-11-19 02:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Post by Paul Aubrin
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
¶ÿ Now there are a lot MORE of them ...
What you suppose about the total number of bacteria is probably false.
Commie scientists are paid big bucks by big pharma to lie about global
warming and Trump is putting a end to it.
JTEM
2024-11-19 06:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Aubrin
Bacteria have been leaking methane for hundreds of millions of years.
Probably billions of years.

Around 2 billion years ago life on earth was emitting enough
oxygen to change the atmosphere, spark a major extinction
event.
--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5
kinak
2024-11-14 21:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-accelerates-climate-crisis/
. . .
  OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending. More
  ice IS going to melt, more frozen swamps ARE going
  to thaw. The more it goes the faster it goes. Humans
  can't really stop/reverse/delay this very much, it's
  too big a thing. MAJOR geo-engineering - like releasing
  large quantities of customized dusts into the
  stratosphere - could set things back a little while
  but I don't think it's economically sustainable. I've
  even heard a plan to launch 'dust' ten million miles
  sunward in (temporarily) sync orbit with the earth
  to form like a 1% 'shield'.
  Sorry, but SUVs aren't your major problem, nor are
  the power plants and such. We're looking at very
  long term cyclic trends.
  Eventually there will be a fairly large comet hit
  or prodigious volcanic blast or orbital tilt that
  will tip us back into a cold cycle. Happened before,
  will happen again.
  MEANWHILE ... expect most of the earth to become
  fairly 'tropical'. This has happened before too.
  Palm trees in Greenland, that kind of thing. Both
  humans and (many) flora and fauna survived (with
  adaptations) the last times this happened - but
  it's gonna be extra sweaty in London and just
  skip DisneyWorld in August. Forget Miami Beach,
  won't be there anymore - "Florida" will start
  kinda from Palm Beach north.
-------------------------------------

By now though, the world has put a certain amount of effort
into reducing global warming.

So there should be some small observable effect already,
to show that GW is slowing.

If this is not there, it might be showing that GW is not manmade.
Siri Cruise
2024-11-14 23:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by kinak
By now though, the world has put a certain amount of effort
into reducing global warming.
So there should be some small observable effect already,
to show that GW is slowing.
If this is not there, it might be showing that GW is not manmade.
Look up 'nonlinear response'.
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
186282@ud0s4.net
2024-11-15 01:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Citizen Winston Smith
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-accelerates-climate-crisis/
. . .
   OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending. More
   ice IS going to melt, more frozen swamps ARE going
   to thaw. The more it goes the faster it goes. Humans
   can't really stop/reverse/delay this very much, it's
   too big a thing. MAJOR geo-engineering - like releasing
   large quantities of customized dusts into the
   stratosphere - could set things back a little while
   but I don't think it's economically sustainable. I've
   even heard a plan to launch 'dust' ten million miles
   sunward in (temporarily) sync orbit with the earth
   to form like a 1% 'shield'.
   Sorry, but SUVs aren't your major problem, nor are
   the power plants and such. We're looking at very
   long term cyclic trends.
   Eventually there will be a fairly large comet hit
   or prodigious volcanic blast or orbital tilt that
   will tip us back into a cold cycle. Happened before,
   will happen again.
   MEANWHILE ... expect most of the earth to become
   fairly 'tropical'. This has happened before too.
   Palm trees in Greenland, that kind of thing. Both
   humans and (many) flora and fauna survived (with
   adaptations) the last times this happened - but
   it's gonna be extra sweaty in London and just
   skip DisneyWorld in August. Forget Miami Beach,
   won't be there anymore - "Florida" will start
   kinda from Palm Beach north.
-------------------------------------
By now though, the world has put a certain amount of effort
into reducing global warming.
So there should be some small observable effect already,
to show that GW is slowing.
If this is not there, it might be showing that GW is not manmade.
China alone is more than making up for what the USA
and EU contribute together. The "developing" world
is increasing coal/hydrocarbon use rapidly. The only
"small observable effects" you're gonna see is an
uptrend in CO2 for at least 25 years. "Alternatives"
generally require a lot of up-front money and cash
has become kinda tight.

Eventually we will be in a position to start lowering
CO2 ... eventually. Nothing WRONG with that, but you
can't let it implode the global economy in the process
or it'll be the largest disaster since the Black Plague.
Then people will burn down the rest of the forests and
light off every speck of coal and oil just to stay warm
and keep the wolves at bay.

So, meanwhile, keep improving the "alternatives". but
BE VERY PATIENT in seeing them deployed large-scale.

On top of that, DO remember those long-term climate
trends. VERY little we can do about those. The last
ice-age ended kind of abruptly, where all those "flood"
tales came from - STILL arguments as to why that was ...
but it wasn't SUVs and steel factories.
Bill Cross
2024-11-19 02:00:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-accelerat
es-climate-crisis/
. . .
Dinosaurs are comin' back. It's happened before.
John Ross Warner
2024-11-19 02:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@ud0s4.net
https://scitechdaily.com/frozen-carbon-unleashed-arctic-meltdown-accelerat
es-climate-crisis/
. . .
OK folks ... the last ice age is STILL ending. More
ice IS going to melt, more frozen swamps ARE going
to thaw. The more it goes the faster it goes. Humans
can't really stop/reverse/delay this very much, it's
Science is a pile of marxite bullshit. Were shutting down the science
elite once and for all.
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