"Green" Solar Panels

"Toxins are toxins when Facebook & Greta tells us that they're green."

--
https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-01 06:10:52 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-01 08:40:52 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

Long gone are the days of servicing your own vehicle.
Apart from oiling some bearings you can't and sometimes are
prohibited by law from fixing your own car.
I was helping a neighbor recently and it turned out you
needed to break an old mil grade encryption to even ask it here it hurt.

--
Why Can't The Car Industry Do Crypto?
linkedin, 12 Aug 2016
The cryptography used on Volkswagen cars has been found to have used
a limited number of secret keys, which, when discovered, will crack nearly ...
-- Wm Buchanan

Alan

2024-10-04 20:55:51 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-04 21:34:13 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?
Just think of a bit of high-speed gravel in your cooling
system, OK?

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

Alan

2024-10-04 22:10:19 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-04 23:05:58 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?
LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Yer wasting your time commenting on what I say.
We don't speak the same language, me an' thee.

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

Alan

2024-10-04 23:21:38 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?
LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Yer wasting your time commenting on what I say.
We don't speak the same language, me an' thee.

LOL!

AlleyCat

2024-10-05 02:13:43 UTC

On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 23:05:58 -0000 (UTC), Dhu on Gate says...

Post by Alan
LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Yer wasting your time commenting on what I say.

Uhhh... I don't know why... you're both Cuntnadian.

Alan knows his shit when it comes to cars and he's exactly right about the On-board Diagnostics.

I spent years in QA/QC at Nissan and we all walked around with an OBD-II device, that told us exactly what was wrong.

If you can't fix your own car, even after knowing what's wrong with it... buy a '63 VW Bug.

=====

September:

Big Cool Down For Europe

Snow In Both Hemispheres

Arctic Sea Ice Going Nowhere

September Snow In Lapland

Another Polar Blast To Slam Southern Africa

October Snow For The Aussie Alps

Unprecedented Summer Snowstorm Begins In The Alps

Italian Peaks Register Record-Breaking -24.6C (-12.3F)

Snow Clips The UK, Cold Threatens Records

Arctic Sea Ice Still Trend-less

Another New Study Finds Clouds To Be Earth's Climate Control Knob, Not CO2

Record-Breaking Snow For The Alps

Zululanders See Surprise Spring Flakes

Mount Washington Registers Early First Measurable Snow

Early-Season Snow In Austria

Scotland Shivers

Historic Lows Broken In U.S.

Greenland's Surface Gained 370 Billion Tons Of Ice Last Season, Bang On Average

Cold Records Tumble Across The East

Colder-Than-Average Augusts

India Meteorological Department Warns Of Harsh Winter To Come

Snowy Colorado

Southern Hemisphere Snow - Argentina and Chile Pounded

Early Snows Hit Kyrgyzstan

Eastern U.S. Fells Cold Records, 150 Million To See Fall-Like Temps

UK's Coolest Summer Since 2015

First Significant Snows Forecast For The Alps

150 Years Of Antarctic Ice Data Reveals Decline In Wildfires Since 1920

Arizona Sees August Snow

Europe Forecast Stark Temperature Drop

Thousands Without Power In Tasmania As Cold And Snow Intensify

Foot Of Snow Closes Going-To-The-Sun Road

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-04 23:37:08 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...

Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network. The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

And the more compliacted things get the more complex they HAVE to
get just to catch up to the first part of the complications.
And the best part about this from the biz angle -- it makes it easier
to fence off access to something and charge anyone that wants access rent.
So obviously we're on a path where everything will become increasingly
more complex and costly.

Alan

2024-10-04 23:55:43 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...
Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network.

I'm quite aware of that, thanks.

Post by R Kym Horsell
The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.

No. It is NOT a "mini internet".

Post by R Kym Horsell
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

Well since thieves ARE breaking into cars using the CANbus network, your
thesis that it must be encrypted has already failed, hasn't it?

Post by R Kym Horsell
And the more compliacted things get the more complex they HAVE to
get just to catch up to the first part of the complications.
And the best part about this from the biz angle -- it makes it easier
to fence off access to something and charge anyone that wants access rent.
So obviously we're on a path where everything will become increasingly
more complex and costly.

I have no doubt that there can be edge cases where the OBD system of the
car doesn't display the necessary information for a problem.

But the vast majority of cases let the owner purchase a (relatively)
inexpensive tool that allows that to learn things that would have cost
that hundreds if not thousands of dollars at an auto shop.

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 00:15:31 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...
Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network.

I'm quite aware of that, thanks.

Post by R Kym Horsell
The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.

No. It is NOT a "mini internet".

Post by R Kym Horsell
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

Well since thieves ARE breaking into cars using the CANbus network, your
thesis that it must be encrypted has already failed, hasn't it?

...

Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 00:21:57 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...
Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network.

I'm quite aware of that, thanks.

Post by R Kym Horsell
The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.

No. It is NOT a "mini internet".

Post by R Kym Horsell
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

Well since thieves ARE breaking into cars using the CANbus network, your
thesis that it must be encrypted has already failed, hasn't it?

...
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Tell you what. Before you say something is "impossible"
why dont you check with google to see if everyone knows it's possible?

An In-Vehicle Network Security Protocol Based on Dynamic #
In view of the multi-functional mixedcriticality characteristics of
automotive electronic system, a security protocol for vehicle CAN
***************************************
network based on dynamic encryption is #
****************************************************

Alan

2024-10-05 00:32:48 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...
Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network.

I'm quite aware of that, thanks.

Post by R Kym Horsell
The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.

No. It is NOT a "mini internet".

Post by R Kym Horsell
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

Well since thieves ARE breaking into cars using the CANbus network, your
thesis that it must be encrypted has already failed, hasn't it?

...
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Tell you what. Before you say something is "impossible"
why dont you check with google to see if everyone knows it's possible?

I never said that anything was impossible.

Post by R Kym Horsell
An In-Vehicle Network Security Protocol Based on Dynamic #
In view of the multi-functional mixedcriticality characteristics of
automotive electronic system, a security protocol for vehicle CAN
***************************************
network based on dynamic encryption is #
****************************************************

Why did you break off right at that last "is", R Kym?

Hmmmm?

It couldn't be because the next word was "proposed", could it?

And what is the clear implication of the use of the word "proposed"?

Hmmm?

CANbus (Controller Area Network) as used in cars currently...

...IS NOT ENCRYPTED.

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 00:37:30 UTC

...

Why did you break off right at that last "is", R Kym?

Because that's where the google text ended. The "#" is apparently
the ascii translation for the "..." on the snippet I cut & pasted.

Next time check G first, eh?

Alan

2024-10-05 00:48:49 UTC

Why did you break off right at that last "is", R Kym?

Because that's where the google text ended. The "#" is apparently
the ascii translation for the "..." on the snippet I cut & pasted.
Next time check G first, eh?

Oh, I did check.

(And isn't it interesting that you snipped so much of what I wrote?)

Here is the complete sentence from your source:

'In view of the multi-functional mixed criticality characteristics of
automotive electronic system, a security protocol for vehicle CAN
network based on dynamic encryption is proposed to save system computing
resources and reduce the impact on real-time performance.'

<https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9532013>

Do you see that text you chose to leave out:

"proposed"?

That implies that there is no encryption being used currently, correct?

Alan

2024-10-05 00:28:04 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

You've not looked at automobile firmware, EVER, have you?

You think you need to break the encryption on the firmware to get
diagnostic information?

...
Things are not usually as simple as you might hope. :)
Modern cars have a network.

I'm quite aware of that, thanks.

Post by R Kym Horsell
The batteries, the fuel system, the
ignition, the dashboard, the lights, are all on a mini internet.

No. It is NOT a "mini internet".

Post by R Kym Horsell
You think this is not encrypted? What if a thief got in there
and convinced the central locking system it has received a pass key
from a key or fob?

Well since thieves ARE breaking into cars using the CANbus network, your
thesis that it must be encrypted has already failed, hasn't it?

...
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Because I did my research and I know it doesn't.

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 00:32:58 UTC

...

Post by R Kym Horsell
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Because I did my research and I know it doesn't.

LOL. Google CAN+encryption says your research is lacking.

--
Greek philosophers argued that knowlege was Justified True Belief.
You "know" X if
(1) X is in fact true,
(2) you believe X to be true, and
(3) you were justified in your belief that it is true.
Flash forward 2000 years and we now know that (3) does not mean
Google search.

Alan

2024-10-05 00:34:59 UTC

Post by R Kym Horsell
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Because I did my research and I know it doesn't.

LOL. Google CAN+encryption says your research is lacking.

I know it exists.

It is NOT applied to automobile CANbus systems.

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 00:54:11 UTC

Post by R Kym Horsell
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Because I did my research and I know it doesn't.

LOL. Google CAN+encryption says your research is lacking.

I know it exists.
It is NOT applied to automobile CANbus systems.

Again, you are making a claim that something is not possile.
Such claims are bound to be wrong.

On the climate change side of things you seem to be on the white hat
side. It's the nay-sayers that are claiming some part of
climate science is "impossible". And almost always they are wrong.

In this case you may be getting confused between what the CAN protocol
defines and what it can be used for. Perhaps aided by an old textbook
or two. :)

The Ethernet protocol does not definie an encryptin standard.
Old textbooks dont even mention ecryption. E.g. telnet and ftp
were old utilities that sent everything "clear".

But that doesn't mean encrypted packets are not sent over the Internet
and that is standard now.

You need to google something like "is there some vehcile manufacturer that
uses encrypted CAN as a standard feature". You will find they exist
and one of them was mentioned in the footnote at the bottom of the OP.

--
Automotive CAN Bus: Exploring CAN Vehicle Communication
The CAN protocol does not include encryption or authentication mechanisms,
making it susceptible to unauthorized access and potential security breaches.
However, various solutions and best practices have been developed to
address these security concerns, #

Alan

2024-10-05 01:15:22 UTC

Post by R Kym Horsell
Circular logic. Why dont you imaging this involves "breaking encryption"? :)

Because I did my research and I know it doesn't.

LOL. Google CAN+encryption says your research is lacking.

I know it exists.
It is NOT applied to automobile CANbus systems.

Again, you are making a claim that something is not possile.
Such claims are bound to be wrong.

I am making no claim about what is possible.

I'm telling you want is true:

There are currently no cars that use an encrypted CANbus.

Post by R Kym Horsell
On the climate change side of things you seem to be on the white hat
side. It's the nay-sayers that are claiming some part of
climate science is "impossible". And almost always they are wrong.

Utterly irrelevant.

Post by R Kym Horsell
In this case you may be getting confused between what the CAN protocol
defines and what it can be used for. Perhaps aided by an old textbook
or two. :)
The Ethernet protocol does not definie an encryptin standard.
Old textbooks dont even mention ecryption. E.g. telnet and ftp
were old utilities that sent everything "clear".

Utterly irrelevant.

Post by R Kym Horsell
But that doesn't mean encrypted packets are not sent over the Internet
and that is standard now.
You need to google something like "is there some vehcile manufacturer that
uses encrypted CAN as a standard feature". You will find they exist
and one of them was mentioned in the footnote at the bottom of the OP.

Even after fixing your typos:

'No results found for "is there some vehicle manufacturer that uses
encrypted CAN as a standard feature".'

Taking away the quotes, and you get one article about Hyundai using
encryption...

...for its INFOTAINMENT system.

Not the entire care.

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-04 22:12:30 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

I pre-answered that. :)

Post by Alan
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

There's a theorem of computer science that roughly says
every program can't handle some conditions. In this case the
car's main central processor(s) said there was no fault but the car
would not start. After the maker offered to investigate for a 4-figure
sum plus expenses the owner decided to break into the car's electronics
and fix it themselves. Turned out another compter on that car's local
network did know what was wrong and we tinkerer around until we found
the problem. A shorted switch in the centre console.

Post by Alan
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

Actually it was "old mil grade encryption". Anything with less than a 512bit
key these days is "old". Again, the footnote in the original post
gives a hint of the details.
We looked around and found a list of relevant keys on the web and one
of them worked for that maker in the relevant subsystem.
It took a couple days in all but saved a few thousand. The bad switch
was a $1 item.
It took another day to replace. Has anyone tried to remove a centre
console lately? Apparently you need a phd in engineering to do it.
Or you must be willing to live with the axe marks.
--
[Slow Swimmers:]
States like: Avg temp (C) Fert(White) Liner model
Minnesota 5.13194 54 54.7001
Wyoming 5.71693 59 54.5343*
Montana 6.04505 54 54.4413
Wisconsin 6.56714 51 54.2933*
South.Dakota 7.2158 56 54.1095
Colorado 7.69684 50 53.9731*
Utah 8.87625 56 53.6388
Pennsylvania 9.89249 51 53.3508
Ohio 10.3901 53 53.2097
Virginia 12.5525 54 52.5968
Missouri 12.7726 55 52.5344
Kentucky 13.0809 52 52.447
Tennessee 14.6076 48.5 52.0143*
North.Carolina 15.4773 50 51.7678
Arkansas 16.0042 54 51.6185
South.Carolina 17.1865 53 51.2833
Alabama 17.5515 50 51.1799
Georgia 17.6747 52 51.145
Louisiana 19.3763 55 50.6627*
Florida 21.717 46 49.9992*

MODEL:
y = -2.834440e-01*x + 5.615475e+01
beta in -0.283444 +- 0.212833 (90% CI)
alpha in 56.1548 +- 2.81486
T-test: P(beta<0) = 0.983502
Rank test: calculated Spearman corr = -0.392481
Crit val = 0.377 2-sided at 5% sig; reject H0:not_connected
r2 = 0.22856662

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-04 22:53:52 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

I pre-answered that. :)

Post by Alan
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

There's a theorem of computer science that roughly says

That's a "side effect" of completeness vs. consistency.

IF you make a system "complete", that is covering all possible
exigencies, you cannot *prove* (or guaranty) it to be internally
consistent. So we have to live with systems that don't do everything
but what they do they do "correctly". More that one "System" is
required and even then there's no guarantees of covering off all cases.

Interestingly, a "minimalist" corollary of this is that Man does not
live by bread alone, but by Every Word of G*s ;-)

For more on this, read up about B. Russel and George Cantor.

Dhu

Post by R Kym Horsell
every program can't handle some conditions. In this case the
car's main central processor(s) said there was no fault but the car
would not start. After the maker offered to investigate for a 4-figure
sum plus expenses the owner decided to break into the car's electronics
and fix it themselves. Turned out another compter on that car's local
network did know what was wrong and we tinkerer around until we found
the problem. A shorted switch in the centre console.

Post by Alan
So what was that "mil grade encryption", hmmm?

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-04 23:46:20 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

I pre-answered that. :)

Post by Alan
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

There's a theorem of computer science that roughly says

That's a "side effect" of completeness vs. consistency.
IF you make a system "complete", that is covering all possible

...

You're talking to someone that has been doing that stuff for 1/2 a lifetime. :)
I like to think of it in terms of self-reference.
Any system that has to look at itself will strike problems.
Can you make a machine that can diagnose its own faults?
What happens when the diagnostic part has a fault?

NASA always had an engineering policy that every mission-critical system
had to have triple redundancy. If not 3 identical systems then
at least 3 different subsystems had to be able to do the same job.
But the point of failure generally was the part of the system that
took the vote of the 3 identical systems to find out the majority-decision
and switch out the subsystem that was wrong.

In MV you often see the central computer start up and ask various sub-systems
to run diagnostics. The sub-systems poke some circuits and see if the
results are what they expect. If so, they send an OK back to the start-up
request from the central processor.

But the checking runs into a problem. If you have to check say 1 million
bits to decide if your sub-system is working then how do you check
they are all correct? A typical method is to use a hash. Boil the
sequence of 1 million correct bits down into a 16 bit number.
Take the hash of the million and check it against the 16 bits in PROM.
But there is a logical problem. A million bits can have "many" more
possible combinations of values than 16 bits. So it means there can
be many problems that hash to exactly the "everything is OK" code.

But the hashing idea is cheap and everyone uses it "all the time".

So it's a minor miracle these days when you put your bread in a toaster
that it cooks it for a couple mins, the toast pops up, and it's edible.

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-05 05:07:17 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

I pre-answered that. :)

Post by Alan
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

There's a theorem of computer science that roughly says

That's a "side effect" of completeness vs. consistency.
IF you make a system "complete", that is covering all possible

...
You're talking to someone that has been doing that stuff for 1/2 a lifetime. :)
I like to think of it in terms of self-reference.
Any system that has to look at itself will strike problems.
Can you make a machine that can diagnose its own faults?
What happens when the diagnostic part has a fault?
NASA always had an engineering policy that every mission-critical system
had to have triple redundancy. If not 3 identical systems then
at least 3 different subsystems had to be able to do the same job.
But the point of failure generally was the part of the system that
took the vote of the 3 identical systems to find out the majority-decision
and switch out the subsystem that was wrong.
In MV you often see the central computer start up and ask various sub-systems
to run diagnostics. The sub-systems poke some circuits and see if the
results are what they expect. If so, they send an OK back to the start-up
request from the central processor.
But the checking runs into a problem. If you have to check say 1 million
bits to decide if your sub-system is working then how do you check
they are all correct? A typical method is to use a hash. Boil the
sequence of 1 million correct bits down into a 16 bit number.
Take the hash of the million and check it against the 16 bits in PROM.
But there is a logical problem. A million bits can have "many" more
possible combinations of values than 16 bits. So it means there can
be many problems that hash to exactly the "everything is OK" code.
But the hashing idea is cheap and everyone uses it "all the time".
So it's a minor miracle these days when you put your bread in a toaster
that it cooks it for a couple mins, the toast pops up, and it's edible.

This is where the model for the 'net breaks down. At this point in
a real conversation I'd be offerin' to buy you a drink and pump you
some more ...

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

R Kym Horsell

2024-10-05 06:18:12 UTC

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

I pre-answered that. :)

Post by Alan
All cars built for sale in North America have had a standard OBD-II port
that can be read by various scanners costing anywhere from $20...
...to a lot more depending on complexity.

There's a theorem of computer science that roughly says

That's a "side effect" of completeness vs. consistency.
IF you make a system "complete", that is covering all possible

...
You're talking to someone that has been doing that stuff for 1/2 a lifetime. :)
I like to think of it in terms of self-reference.
Any system that has to look at itself will strike problems.
Can you make a machine that can diagnose its own faults?
What happens when the diagnostic part has a fault?
NASA always had an engineering policy that every mission-critical system
had to have triple redundancy. If not 3 identical systems then
at least 3 different subsystems had to be able to do the same job.
But the point of failure generally was the part of the system that
took the vote of the 3 identical systems to find out the majority-decision
and switch out the subsystem that was wrong.
In MV you often see the central computer start up and ask various sub-systems
to run diagnostics. The sub-systems poke some circuits and see if the
results are what they expect. If so, they send an OK back to the start-up
request from the central processor.
But the checking runs into a problem. If you have to check say 1 million
bits to decide if your sub-system is working then how do you check
they are all correct? A typical method is to use a hash. Boil the
sequence of 1 million correct bits down into a 16 bit number.
Take the hash of the million and check it against the 16 bits in PROM.
But there is a logical problem. A million bits can have "many" more
possible combinations of values than 16 bits. So it means there can
be many problems that hash to exactly the "everything is OK" code.
But the hashing idea is cheap and everyone uses it "all the time".
So it's a minor miracle these days when you put your bread in a toaster
that it cooks it for a couple mins, the toast pops up, and it's edible.

This is where the model for the 'net breaks down. At this point in
a real conversation I'd be offerin' to buy you a drink and pump you
some more ...
Dhu

If you smiled I'm doing my job.

AlleyCat

2024-10-05 21:07:07 UTC

I started this post last night, so...

On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 06:18:12 -0000 (UTC), R Kym Horsell says...

Post by Dhu on Gate
This is where the model for the 'net breaks down. At this point in
a real conversation I'd be offerin' to buy you a drink and pump you
some more ...
Dhu

If you smiled I'm doing my job.

So, your job is to make us laugh at you?

https://i.imgur.com/c7Jiuvf.mp4

Filter-Free Friday for Faggots is now over. Enjoy your weekend.

=====

September:

Big Cool Down For Europe

Snow In Both Hemispheres

Arctic Sea Ice Going Nowhere

September Snow In Lapland

Another Polar Blast To Slam Southern Africa

October Snow For The Aussie Alps

Unprecedented Summer Snowstorm Begins In The Alps

Italian Peaks Register Record-Breaking -24.6C (-12.3F)

Snow Clips The UK, Cold Threatens Records

Arctic Sea Ice Still Trend-less

Another New Study Finds Clouds To Be Earth's Climate Control Knob, Not CO2

Record-Breaking Snow For The Alps

Zululanders See Surprise Spring Flakes

Mount Washington Registers Early First Measurable Snow

Early-Season Snow In Austria

Scotland Shivers

Historic Lows Broken In U.S.

Greenland's Surface Gained 370 Billion Tons Of Ice Last Season, Bang On Average

Cold Records Tumble Across The East

Colder-Than-Average Augusts

India Meteorological Department Warns Of Harsh Winter To Come

Snowy Colorado

Southern Hemisphere Snow - Argentina and Chile Pounded

Early Snows Hit Kyrgyzstan

Eastern U.S. Fells Cold Records, 150 Million To See Fall-Like Temps

UK's Coolest Summer Since 2015

First Significant Snows Forecast For The Alps

150 Years Of Antarctic Ice Data Reveals Decline In Wildfires Since 1920

Arizona Sees August Snow

Europe Forecast Stark Temperature Drop

Thousands Without Power In Tasmania As Cold And Snow Intensify

Foot Of Snow Closes Going-To-The-Sun Road

Alan

2024-10-05 03:34:12 UTC

On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 13:55:51 -0700, Alan says...

Lotta folks don't get how fragile hi-tech shit is.
Dhu

What kind of car was that?

Some homegrown blunda from downunda, no doubt. Probably a Ford.

Are you the one constantly saying "I wasn't replying to you"?

Alan

2024-10-04 20:52:54 UTC

Post by AlleyCat
Nebraska, USA: Within minutes, a single hailstorm reduced 14,000 solar panels, worth millions of dollars, into a pile
of toxic debris-leaching materials like cadmium and lead into the soil.
A hailstorm disaster in Nebraska USA reacted immediately and turned a multi million dollar investment... a solar park
into a pile of toxic debris within minutes. Hale destroyed 14,000 solar panels with a total capacity of 5.2 megawatts.
The complex was planned by the investors to produce green energy for 25 years, but in reality, it only made it to four
years.
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1840391300463333376/pu/vid/avc1/482x720/EoHKIeDgaDmZM3-S.mp4?tag=12

'The company said the damaged panels “contain no cadmium telluride and
we have identified no risk to the local community or the environment.” A
spokesperson said this week that he had no update from that statement.

The mention of cadmium telluride is a nod to the ludicrous coverage of
this incident by outlets such as Fox News. As I’ve written before,
opponents of solar power like to raise red flags about the alleged
danger to human and animal health from solar panels that contain
cadmium. But cadmium is only in a tiny share of panels on the market,
and the solar industry uses a form of cadmium that is safer than the
form that fuels the scare stories.'

'‍Myth #1: When solar panels break, they become hazardous to human and
environmental health.

Reality: The International Energy Administration (IEA) studied whether
solar panels posed a significant threat to human and environmental
health, and if broken panels would impact local groundwater. They
conclusively found that even if the panels were smashed and processed in
a basic landfill, there would be no significant hazard to local
communities.

...

‍Myth 3: Solar panels cannot be recycled and end up in local landfills.

Reality: Companies like SOLARCYCLE are recycling panels today and
returning those valuable materials right back to the domestic supply
chain for clean energy. '

Dhu on Gate

2024-10-04 21:35:56 UTC

Post by Alan
Reality: The International Energy Administration (IEA) studied whether
solar panels posed a significant threat to human and environmental health,
and if broken panels would impact local groundwater. They conclusively
found that even if the panels were smashed and processed in a basic
landfill, there would be no significant hazard to local communities.

Who was paying their bills?

Follow the money.

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

Alan

2024-10-05 04:37:04 UTC