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The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
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Rhys Gabbard
2023-10-01 16:04:10 UTC
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The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists


The Nazis hated socialists. It was the governments that rebuilt Europe
that embraced social welfare programs.
Perspective by Ronald J. Granieri

Ronald J. Granieri is a Templeton Education Fellow at the Foreign Policy
Research Institute and history professor at the U.S. Army War College. The
views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of
Defense or the U.S. Government.
February 5, 2020 at 6:00 a.m. EST
Nazi soldiers salute as Adolf Hitler leads his staff down the aisle during
the opening of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party Convention in
Nuremberg, Germany, on Sept. 11, 1933. (AP)
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Did you know that “Nazi” is short for “National Socialist”? That means
that Hitler and his henchmen were all socialists. Bernie Sanders calls
himself a socialist, too. That means Bernie Sanders and his supporters are
the same as Nazis … doesn’t it?

Anyone who has been on political Twitter in the past decade has seen a
version of this syllogism. Conservatives, seeking to escape the “fascist”
and “Nazi” labels tossed at them by leftist critics since the 1960s, have
turned the tables. Books such as Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism” have
noted that many leading fascists, such as Italian dictator Benito
Mussolini, started out as socialists, just as many early 20th-century
“progressives” embraced eugenic ideas ultimately linked to Nazi racist
genocide. This connection has become a silver bullet for voices on the
right like Dinesh D’Souza and Candace Owens: Not only is the reviled left,
embodied in 2020 by figures like Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and
Elizabeth Warren, a dangerous descendant of the Nazis, but anyone who
opposes it can’t possibly have ties to the Nazis’ odious ideas.

There is only one problem: This argument is untrue. Although the Nazis did
pursue a level of government intervention in the economy that would shock
doctrinaire free marketeers, their “socialism” was at best a secondary
element in their appeal. Indeed, most supporters of Nazism embraced the
party precisely because they saw it as an enemy of and an alternative to
the political left. A closer look at the connection between Nazism and
socialism can help us better understand both ideologies in their
historical contexts and their significance for contemporary politics.
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The Nazi regime had little to do with socialism, despite it being
prominently included in the name of the National Socialist German
Workers’ Party. The NSDAP, from Hitler on down, struggled with the
political implications of having socialism in the party name. Some early
Nazi leaders, such as Gregor and Otto Strasser, appealed to working-class
resentments, hoping to wean German workers away from their attachment to
existing socialist and communist parties. The NSDAP’s 1920 party program,
the 25 points, included passages denouncing banks, department stores and
“interest slavery,” which suggested a quasi-Marxist rejection of free
markets. But these were also typical criticisms in the anti-Semitic
playbook, which provided a clue that the party’s overriding ideological
goal wasn’t a fundamental challenge to private property.

Instead of controlling the means of production or redistributing wealth to
build a utopian society, the Nazis focused on safeguarding a social and
racial hierarchy. They promised solidarity for members of the
Volksgemeinschaft (“racial community”) even as they denied rights to those
outside the charmed circle.

Additionally, while the Nazis tried to appeal to voters across the
spectrum, the party’s founders and initial base were small-business men
and artisans, not the industrial proletariat of Marxist lore. Their first
notable electoral successes were in small towns and Protestant rural areas
in present-day Thuringia and Saxony, among voters suspicious of
cosmopolitan, secular cities who associated both “socialism” and
“capitalism” with Jews and foreigners.
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This fear of social revolution and a sense that democracy, with its
cacophony of voices and the need for compromises, would threaten their
preferred social hierarchy gave Nazism its appeal with these voters — even
if it meant sacrificing democracy. While Communists abetted the
destruction of German democracy, seeing it as a way to eventually produce
the revolution they wanted, the only German political party that
consistently resisted Nazi arguments, the Social Democratic Party (SPD),
offered another sign of the discontinuity between socialism and Nazism.

Those outside Germany who embraced Nazi ideas were also generally anti-
leftists. When Frenchmen murmured “Better Hitler than [Socialist Party
Leader and Prime Minister Léon] Blum,” they were well aware what National
Socialism represented, and it was most emphatically not “socialism.” When
many of those same Frenchmen set up the puppet Vichy government in 1940,
they did so under the banner of “Travail, famille, patrie,” (Work, family
fatherland), happy to use state resources to support their idea of
authentic Frenchmen — even as they criticized capitalism for providing
benefits to people they didn’t view as French.

Unlike much of the European left, many conservatives proved willing to
work with Nazis — something they later regretted — an association that
tainted postwar European conservatism. When it came time to rebuild
European politics after the war, therefore, it fell to center-left parties
such as Labour in Britain, the Socialists in France and the SPD in
Germany, which abandoned rigid Marxist doctrines, alongside the new
center-right movement of Christian Democracy, which rejected traditional
nationalism, to take up the challenge. This was the hour of the welfare
state, supported by social and Christian Democrats, which encouraged
social solidarity within a democratic and capitalist framework.
Advertisement

Despite this reality, linking socialism and Nazism to critique leftist
ideas became a political weapon in the post-World War II period, perhaps
unsurprisingly given that the Cold War followed directly on the heels of
World War II. Scholars as diverse as Zbigniew Brzezinski and Hannah Arendt
used the larger concept of “totalitarianism” to fuse the two. This formula
made it easier for Americans to slip comfortably from considering the
Soviet Union a wartime ally to recognizing it as an existential threat.
Totalitarianism emphasized the structural similarities and violent
practices of Nazi and Stalinist regimes.

This concept, however, proved controversial as an explanation of the
origins or subsequent appeal of either communism or Nazism/fascism.
Although Hitler and Stalin had cooperated in an effort to conquer Eastern
Europe in 1939 to 1941, this was more a marriage of convenience than a
byproduct of ideological synergy. Indeed, the two sides eventually fought
a genocidal war against each other.

Austrian economist and future Nobel laureate Friedrich von Hayek added an
extra layer to the conversation about socialism and Nazism with his 1943
bestseller, “The Road to Serfdom.” As a staunch free marketeer, Hayek was
appalled by the rise of economic planning in democratic states, embodied
by Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal. Hayek warned that any government
intervention in the market eroded freedom, eventually leading to some form
of dictatorship.
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Hayek was enormously influential across the globe within the rising
conservative movement during the second half of the 20th century. He
advised future leaders such as Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, and
his book became foundational for the right. Hayek’s assertion that all
government interventions in the economy led to totalitarianism continues
to animate popular works such as D’Souza’s “The Big Lie,” reinforcing the
idea that the welfare state is a gateway drug to genocide.

But while these ideas may make sense to free market purists, the history
shows that it was the parties that arose in reaction to the Nazi horrors
that built such welfare states. Denouncing their programs as “socialism”
or warning of a tie between the two is nothing less than historical and
political sophistry that attempts to turn effect into cause and victim
into victimizer.

Historical analogies have a useful purpose to simplify and clarify, but
they work best when used carefully. As manifest problems with global
capitalism, as well as political gridlock, encourage a new hunger for
fundamental political transformation, it is especially important that we
understand the tragic decisions of the 1930s and their consequences in
their full context, rather than simply transposing words from the past
onto the debates of the present.


National Socialism preserved private property, while also putting the
entire resources of society at the service of an expansionist and racist
national vision, which included the conquest and murderous subjugation of
other peoples. It makes no sense to think that the sole, or even the
primary, negative aspect of this regime was the fact that it used state
power to allocate financial resources. It makes as little sense to suggest
that using state power to allocate some financial resources today will
automatically result in the same dire consequences.

Historical “gotcha” threatens to reduce our political conversations to
meaninglessness, and we should resist it. Debates over the proper role of
the state in protecting citizens against the negative exigencies of the
market are necessarily complex. Finding the proper balance of interests
within a democratic political order depends on the measurement of results,
not on the power of magic words to devalue competing ideas.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-
falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/
† The Reverend
2023-10-01 16:37:26 UTC
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 16:04:10 -0000 (UTC), Rhys Gabbard
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
The Nazis hated socialists. It was the governments that rebuilt Europe
that embraced social welfare programs.
Perspective by Ronald J. Granieri
Ronald J. Granieri is a Templeton Education Fellow at the Foreign Policy
Research Institute and history professor at the U.S. Army War College. The
views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the
official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of
Defense or the U.S. Government.
February 5, 2020 at 6:00 a.m. EST
Nazi soldiers salute as Adolf Hitler leads his staff down the aisle during
the opening of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party Convention in
Nuremberg, Germany, on Sept. 11, 1933. (AP)
Share
Did you know that “Nazi” is short for “National Socialist”? That means
that Hitler and his henchmen were all socialists. Bernie Sanders calls
himself a socialist, too. That means Bernie Sanders and his supporters are
the same as Nazis … doesn’t it?
Well, yes...and rightly so. Of course, Sandersky would have been
'holocausted' in Yurp during WWII.
--
The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus admits he got
no life AT ALL outside stalking on THE Usenet!
"Frankly, if he were gone, I wouldn't know what to do here."
Message-ID: <FCOQt.107901$***@fx13.fr7>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus, defending his fellow
Grik sodomite the Grikboxer® and under the delusion that he's
been able to grow a pair: "You'd have to get past me first,"
Message-ID: <LOOQt.337647$***@fx08.fr7>

Yet more proof that the Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus
thinks he got a pair: "Just to let you know: ANYONE who "befriends"
the subnormal swine will have to deal with me! Get ready, bitch!"
Message-ID: <FHg6t.166438$***@newsfe07.iad>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus STILL seems to think
he got a pair: "Which will NEVER happen! You'd have to get past
me first, poor psycho! LOL"
Message-ID: <MCSIu.1$***@fx32.fr7>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus having still MORE delusions
about growing a pair: "If ANYONE dared to grab me by the neck
like that he'd get my fist in his face."
Message-ID: <qeilfu$iog$***@gioia.aioe.org>

In spite of all the evidence, the Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus
STILL has delusions about growing a pair!
"What kind of other-worldly pussies (men?) are you all? If someone
would dare to grab me by the back of my neck like that and push me
around, my instinctive, AUTOMATIC reaction would be to knock him in
the face! NOBODY is allowed to do that to ANYONE!"
Message-ID: <qfnPE.73303$***@usenetxs.com>

Best of all! From the Foreskin Peeler's doctoral dissertation in divinity,
'University' of Salonica (1992): "The jew g-d is your g-d's dad."
Jay Santos
2023-10-01 17:33:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."

The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely different
by it than did the actual socialists of the era. The Nazis absolutely did *not*
mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of the means of production and
distribution, the hallmark of socialism. In fact, the Nazis *privatized*
industries that had been taken over by the state under the Weimar republic.

What Hitler and the Nazis meant by their use of "socialism" was a sort of
cultural and Aryan identity collectivism. The Nazis were mortally opposed to
Marxism, Leninism, "Fourierism," "Fabian" socialism, "democratic" socialism, or
*any* of the traditional left-wing socialist philosophies. The Nazis were not
left-wing by any stretch of the imagination. The claim that they were is a lie
told by far right-wingnuts to try, unsuccessfully, to pretend there is some
ideological distance between them and outright Nazis.

Nazis: extreme nationalism
Socialists: internationalist; national identity is bad

Nazis: indifferent to existence of private enterprise
Socialists: collectivist first and foremost regarding enterprise

Nazis: virulently racist
Socialists: anti-racist

Nazis: extreme reverence for the past and "traditional values"
Socialists: "progressive" - hostility to past and tradition

Nazis: romantic and folkloric; anti-intellectual
Socialists: "scientific" and pro-intellectual

Nazis: glorification of military and war as greatest expression of
national identity; effective military control of state
Socialists: military subordinate to civilian-controlled state

Nazis: aggressively expansionist through war
Socialists: passively expansionist through collapse of capitalist
economies due to capitalism's so-called "inherent contradiction"

Fascism and Nazism are right-wing, not left-wing. The revisionist effort by
right-wingnuts to paint a contrary picture is a failure.

There is a reason that Nazis were major participants at the "unite the right"
murder rally in Charlottesville in 2017. It's because they are and always have
been extremist right-wing.
Klaus Schadenfreude
2023-10-01 17:55:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jay Santos
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
Everyone knows the Democrat Party founded the KKK.
† The Reverend
2023-10-01 20:59:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 10:55:33 -0700, non-white jew inferiorist Klaun
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
Post by Jay Santos
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
Everyone knows the Democrat Party founded the KKK.
Even you g--ddam jews who vote for them!

Schwartzes, you don't like?
--
The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus admits he got
no life AT ALL outside stalking on THE Usenet!
"Frankly, if he were gone, I wouldn't know what to do here."
Message-ID: <FCOQt.107901$***@fx13.fr7>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus, defending his fellow
Grik sodomite the Grikboxer® and under the delusion that he's
been able to grow a pair: "You'd have to get past me first,"
Message-ID: <LOOQt.337647$***@fx08.fr7>

Yet more proof that the Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus
thinks he got a pair: "Just to let you know: ANYONE who "befriends"
the subnormal swine will have to deal with me! Get ready, bitch!"
Message-ID: <FHg6t.166438$***@newsfe07.iad>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus STILL seems to think
he got a pair: "Which will NEVER happen! You'd have to get past
me first, poor psycho! LOL"
Message-ID: <MCSIu.1$***@fx32.fr7>

The Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus having still MORE delusions
about growing a pair: "If ANYONE dared to grab me by the neck
like that he'd get my fist in his face."
Message-ID: <qeilfu$iog$***@gioia.aioe.org>

In spite of all the evidence, the Illiterate Foreskin Peeling Grik anus
STILL has delusions about growing a pair!
"What kind of other-worldly pussies (men?) are you all? If someone
would dare to grab me by the back of my neck like that and push me
around, my instinctive, AUTOMATIC reaction would be to knock him in
the face! NOBODY is allowed to do that to ANYONE!"
Message-ID: <qfnPE.73303$***@usenetxs.com>

Best of all! From the Foreskin Peeler's doctoral dissertation in divinity,
'University' of Salonica (1992): "The jew g-d is your g-d's dad."
Gronk
2023-10-07 05:10:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jay Santos
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
Everyone knows the Republican Party allied themselves with the KKK.
Governor Swill
2023-10-07 05:40:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jay Santos
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
Everyone knows the Republican Party allied themselves with the KKK.
Republicans aren't nazis, but nazis vote Republican.

Until the GOP disavows the far right, including nazis and white nationalists, they will
continue to lose voters. The very groups they depended on to keep them in power,
evangelicals and KKKers, are now a liability.

Swill
--
"There are over 500,000 elected positions in the United States.

70% of them are uncontested."

Not left, not right. https://www.forwardparty.com/
%
2023-10-07 07:54:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jay Santos
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
Everyone knows the Republican Party allied themselves with the KKK.
do you know anything about assworms

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dave+Keeting,+assworm&sca_esv=571511976&filter=0&biw=1360&bih=619&dpr=1
Siri Cruise
2023-10-01 20:44:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
The Nazis hated socialists. It was the governments that rebuilt Europe
that embraced social welfare programs.
Perspective by Ronald J. Granieri
'Socialism' is not the proper term. They did many things that can
be called socialist for whom they decided were aryan useful eaters
in order to have healthy people in factories building weapons, and
healthy soldiers to die for them.

They were not concerned with sharing the nations wealth with the
people manufacturing the wealth, instead making capitalists ever
more wealthier. They were willing to share the bombing raids with
the little (and littler pieces post-raid) people.

The economic policy was called autarky. However they lacked the
oil to make that work, so they became an economy of theft.

Volk doesn't translate into one word in modern politics.
--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.O / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed
Anonymous Reactionary
2023-10-01 23:56:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Nazis were leftists by 1930s standards. They were to the left of
FDR and New Deal Democrats.
Bruce Gerrard
2023-10-02 02:04:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anonymous Reactionary
Nazis were leftists by 1930s standards. They were to the left of
FDR and New Deal Democrats.
Falsehood Another right wing fantasy.

Where's your backup Clem?



Fascism, Nazism and Conservatism

European fascism drew on existing anti-modernist conservatism, and on the
conservative reaction to communism and 19th-century socialism.
Conservative thinkers such as historian Oswald Spengler provided much of
the world view (Weltanschauung) of the Nazi movement.

In Britain, the conservative Daily Mail enthusiastically backed Sir Oswald
Mosley's British Union of Fascists, and part of the Conservative Party
supported closer ties with Nazi Germany.

When defeat in World War II ideologically and historically discredited
fascism, almost all Western conservatives tried to distance themselves
from it. Nevertheless, many post-war Western conservatives continued to
admire the Franco regime in Spain, clearly conservative but also fascist
in origin. With the end of the Franco regime and Portugal's Estado Novo in
the 1970s, the relationship between conservatism and classical European
fascism was further weakened.

Militarism is perhaps the most striking similarity between Fascism and
contemporary American conservatism. Of course, there are many liberals in
America who support the military and even call for increased military
spending.

Even so, American liberals are traditionally more skeptical of the
military than American conservatives. It is often said that
Neoconservatives, like Hitler, see the military as a paradigm for problem
solving (even in situations that may render militarism impractical or
unethical).

The relationship of fascism to right-wing ideologies (including some that
are described as neo-fascist) is still an issue for conservatives
and their opponents. Especially in Germany, there is a constant exchange
of ideology and persons, between the influential national-conservative
movement, and self-identified national-socialist groups.
In Italy too, there is no clear line between conservatives, and movements
inspired by the Italian Fascism of the 1920s to 1940s, including the
Alleanza Nazionale which is member of the governing coalition under
premier Silvio Berlusconi. Conservative attitudes to the 20th-century
fascist regimes are still an issue.
Jay Santos
2023-10-16 00:44:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."

The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely different
by it than did the actual socialists of the era. The Nazis absolutely did *not*
mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of the means of production and
distribution, the hallmark of socialism. In fact, the Nazis *privatized*
industries that had been taken over by the state under the Weimar republic.

What Hitler and the Nazis meant by their use of "socialism" was a sort of
cultural and Aryan identity collectivism. The Nazis were mortally opposed to
Marxism, Leninism, "Fourierism," "Fabian" socialism, "democratic" socialism, or
*any* of the traditional left-wing socialist philosophies. The Nazis were not
left-wing by any stretch of the imagination. The claim that they were is a lie
told by far right-wingnuts to try, unsuccessfully, to pretend there is some
ideological distance between them and outright Nazis.

Nazis: extreme nationalism
Socialists: internationalist; national identity is bad

Nazis: indifferent to existence of private enterprise
Socialists: collectivist first and foremost regarding enterprise

Nazis: virulently racist
Socialists: anti-racist

Nazis: extreme reverence for the past and "traditional values"
Socialists: "progressive" - hostility to past and tradition

Nazis: romantic and folkloric; anti-intellectual
Socialists: "scientific" and pro-intellectual

Nazis: glorification of military and war as greatest expression of
national identity; effective military control of state
Socialists: military subordinate to civilian-controlled state

Nazis: aggressively expansionist through war
Socialists: passively expansionist through collapse of capitalist
economies due to capitalism's so-called "inherent contradiction"

Fascism and Nazism are right-wing, not left-wing. The revisionist effort by
right-wingnuts to paint a contrary picture is a failure.

There is a reason that Nazis were major participants at the "unite the right"
murder rally in Charlottesville in 2017. It's because they are right-wing, not
left-wing.
Jay Santos
2023-10-24 03:13:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."

The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely different
by it than did the actual socialists of the era. The Nazis absolutely did *not*
mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of the means of production and
distribution, the hallmark of socialism. In fact, the Nazis *privatized*
industries that had been taken over by the state under the Weimar republic.

What Hitler and the Nazis meant by their use of "socialism" was a sort of
cultural and Aryan identity collectivism. The Nazis were mortally opposed to
Marxism, Leninism, "Fourierism," "Fabian" socialism, "democratic" socialism, or
*any* of the traditional left-wing socialist philosophies. The Nazis were not
left-wing by any stretch of the imagination. The claim that they were is a lie
told by far right-wingnuts to try, unsuccessfully, to pretend there is some
ideological distance between them and outright Nazis.

Nazis: extreme nationalism
Socialists: internationalist; national identity is bad

Nazis: indifferent to existence of private enterprise
Socialists: collectivist first and foremost regarding enterprise

Nazis: virulently racist
Socialists: anti-racist

Nazis: extreme reverence for the past and "traditional values"
Socialists: "progressive" - hostility to past and tradition

Nazis: romantic and folkloric; anti-intellectual
Socialists: "scientific" and pro-intellectual

Nazis: glorification of military and war as greatest expression of
national identity; effective military control of state
Socialists: military subordinate to civilian-controlled state

Nazis: aggressively expansionist through war
Socialists: passively expansionist through collapse of capitalist
economies due to capitalism's so-called "inherent contradiction"

Fascism and Nazism are right-wing, not left-wing. The revisionist effort by
right-wingnuts to paint a contrary picture is a failure.

There is a reason that Nazis were major participants at the "unite the right"
murder rally in Charlottesville in
David Hartung
2023-10-24 09:04:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jay Santos
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't.  The lie that the Nazis
were "socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other
being that the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely
different by it than did the actual socialists of the era.  The Nazis
absolutely did *not* mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of
the means of production and distribution, the hallmark of socialism.  In
fact, the Nazis *privatized* industries that had been taken over by the
state under the Weimar republic.
What Hitler and the Nazis meant by their use of "socialism" was a sort
of cultural and Aryan identity collectivism.  The Nazis were mortally
opposed to Marxism, Leninism, "Fourierism," "Fabian" socialism,
"democratic" socialism, or *any* of the traditional left-wing socialist
philosophies.  The Nazis were not left-wing by any stretch of the
imagination.  The claim that they were is a lie told by far
right-wingnuts to try, unsuccessfully, to pretend there is some
ideological distance between them and outright Nazis.
Nazis:  extreme nationalism
Socialists:  internationalist; national identity is bad
Nazis:  indifferent to existence of private enterprise
Socialists:  collectivist first and foremost regarding enterprise
Nazis:  virulently racist
Socialists:  anti-racist
Nazis:  extreme reverence for the past and "traditional values"
Socialists:  "progressive" - hostility to past and tradition
Nazis:  romantic and folkloric; anti-intellectual
Socialists:  "scientific" and pro-intellectual
Nazis:  glorification of military and war as greatest expression of
        national identity; effective military control of state
Socialists:  military subordinate to civilian-controlled state
Nazis:  aggressively expansionist through war
Socialists:  passively expansionist through collapse of capitalist
        economies due to capitalism's so-called "inherent contradiction"
Fascism and Nazism are right-wing, not left-wing.  The revisionist
effort by right-wingnuts to paint a contrary picture is a failure.
There is a reason that Nazis were major participants at the "unite the
right" murder rally in Charlottesville in
Interesting.

I have always understood socialism to be an economic system and Nazism
to be a system of government.

From https://www.britannica.com/event/Nazism:
[...]
Nazism, also spelled Naziism, in full National Socialism, German
Nationalsozialismus, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head
of the Nazi Party in Germany. In its intense nationalism, mass appeal,
and dictatorial rule, Nazism shared many elements with Italian fascism.
However, Nazism was far more extreme both in its ideas and in its
practice. In almost every respect it was an anti-intellectual and
atheoretical movement, emphasizing the will of the charismatic dictator
as the sole source of inspiration of a people and a nation, as well as a
vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and
only goal of Nazi policy.
[...]

From https://www.wordnik.com/words/socialism:
[...]
noun Any of various theories or systems of social organization in
which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned
collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and
controls the economy.
noun The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between
capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are
collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been
achieved.
[...]

Look at life in the socialist Soviet Union and Nazi Germany,
specifically at the lives of the common people. You will find very
little difference.
Mitchell Holman
2023-10-24 13:05:40 UTC
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Post by David Hartung
Look at life in the socialist Soviet Union and Nazi Germany,
specifically at the lives of the common people. You will find very
little difference.
What would you know about either one?



"How do you know? Were you there?"
David Hartung, May 18 2021
https://tinyurl.com/b99zwawr
Brent Bryans
2023-10-24 14:32:47 UTC
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ea
Republicans opposed US involvement in WW2 due to their overwhelming love for
Adolf Hitler. Many defected to Germany to fight for the Third Reich against
the US and the Allies, trying to kill as many Americans as possible.

Tbere's a good chance that if you see a Republican politician, his ancestors
fought for Hitler against the USA.
Jay Santos
2025-02-24 02:29:18 UTC
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Post by David Hartung
Post by Jay Santos
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't.  The lie that the Nazis
were "socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other
being that the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
The KKK *was* founded by Democrats.
It was founded by southern white racists who were themselves Democrats, but it
was not founded by "the Democrats," as right-wingnut liars like to lie. And in
the 20th century, the Democratic party had no formal connection of any kind to
the KKK.

In the second half of the 20th century, of course, the parties switched entirely
on race. Racist white supremacists left the Democratic party and became
Republicans. The Democrats became the party of racial equality and
anti-segregation. While not all contemporary Republiscums/QAnon are KKK,
virtually all KKK are Republiscums/QAnon, and the Republiscum/QAnon party is
entirely white nationalist and is *supportive* of the KKK.
Post by David Hartung
Post by Jay Santos
The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely
different by it than did the actual socialists of the era.  The Nazis
absolutely did *not* mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of
the means of production and distribution, the hallmark of socialism.  In
fact, the Nazis *privatized* industries that had been taken over by the
state under the Weimar republic.
What Hitler and the Nazis meant by their use of "socialism" was a sort
of cultural and Aryan identity collectivism.  The Nazis were mortally
opposed to Marxism, Leninism, "Fourierism," "Fabian" socialism,
"democratic" socialism, or *any* of the traditional left-wing socialist
philosophies.  The Nazis were not left-wing by any stretch of the
imagination.  The claim that they were is a lie told by far
right-wingnuts to try, unsuccessfully, to pretend there is some
ideological distance between them and outright Nazis.
Well said. Nazism is indeed at the extreme right as Communism is at the extreme left -
BUT, the latter is an economic system only while the former is a political one.
Communism is a political as well as economic system. Socialism is an economic
system only.
Post by David Hartung
Post by Jay Santos
Nazis:  extreme nationalism
Socialists:  internationalist; national identity is bad
Nazis:  indifferent to existence of private enterprise
Socialists:  collectivist first and foremost regarding enterprise
Nazis:  virulently racist
Socialists:  anti-racist
Nazis:  extreme reverence for the past and "traditional values"
Socialists:  "progressive" - hostility to past and tradition
Nazis:  romantic and folkloric; anti-intellectual
Socialists:  "scientific" and pro-intellectual
Nazis:  glorification of military and war as greatest expression of
        national identity; effective military control of state
Socialists:  military subordinate to civilian-controlled state
Nazis:  aggressively expansionist through war
Socialists:  passively expansionist through collapse of capitalist
        economies due to capitalism's so-called "inherent contradiction"
Fascism and Nazism are right-wing, not left-wing.  The revisionist
effort by right-wingnuts to paint a contrary picture is a failure.
There is a reason that Nazis were major participants at the "unite the
right" murder rally in Charlottesville in
Interesting.
I have always understood socialism to be an economic system and Nazism
to be a system of government.
Correct, but either can be freely democratic *or* authoritarian in execution.
You're fucking insane. Nazism is the antithesis of freely democratic. Both Nazi
Germany and the Soviet Union (like Russia today) held only sham elections. The
outcomes were *always* predetermined. That's not democracy in any way.
NoBody
2023-10-24 11:22:02 UTC
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Post by Jay Santos
['can.politics' gratuitous bullshit crosspost removed]
Post by Rhys Gabbard
The Right Needs To Stop Falsely Claiming That The Nazis Were Socialists
They should, but they are dishonest and won't. The lie that the Nazis were
"socialists" is one of the far right's two favorite lies, the other being that
the KKK was founded by the "Democratic party."
The Nazis co-opted the word "socialism" and meant something entirely different
by it than did the actual socialists of the era. The Nazis absolutely did *not*
mean economic collectivism, i.e. state ownership of the means of production and
distribution, the hallmark of socialism. In fact, the Nazis *privatized*
industries that had been taken over by the state under the Weimar republic.
KInd of like democrats coopt the term "democracy".
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